Hello from the UK 
please help xx In the last five weeks, my six year old gelding has started swinging round to bite my leg when ridden, he also does it now and then when leading. It appears to be generally when I ask him to leave a good bit of grass although it’s occasionally been when I mount too. He does it with or without a saddle, has had chiropractor last week, he’s not girthy and doesn’t mind saddle being put on. We can have a brilliant ride with no biting, then the next day he starts again. It’s very intermittent. I admit, I have always let him eat a few bites frequently when trail riding, he’s extremely, extremely food oriented warmblood x cob. Normally he has the SWEETEST nature. I haven’t gone about correcting it much as I don’t want to shut down his voice if it IS pain and nothing to do with grass. Yet I don’t want to let it go unchecked. If I try to yeild hind quartes it makes it easier for him to get to my leg. He hasn’t managed to sink his teeth in just yet but looks quite angry sometimes when he does swing round, other times not. please help, does it sound like pain or dominance? Very out of character xx
I just said everything I know on this issue on another recent thread.
Horse who has behavioral problem
Thank you so much for replying, however I have read the post and your response and my horse is very gentle 90 percent of the time he is handled and ridden, he’s a laid back chap, ears forward nearly all the time, very light to stop when ridden or in hand etc. It’s such intermittent and fairly recent behaviour, we can have perfect days then the next, He’s trying to bite usually if made to leave grass. Your advice is great though, I might look into him being proud cut. It’s very hard to find a trainer near me there are none, thank you again x
P.s. if it was KS would it be intermittent like this? I fear that or ulcers. Must get that checked x
Hi! I had a post on this too and I actually figured out why he did the things he did. Wasn’t pain related more so didn’t understand what he wanted from me.
By all means idk what your situation is but I had that very similar experience very SIMILAR with yielding the hind end. If you haven’t or have figured it out that’s great! Otherwise established space until he has full direct attention ears and eyes on and waiting for your next move. And if he tries to go off and bite your back (just like my ottb gelding did) send him onto a circle and get after him and then wait for him to calm down and retry to move his haunches.
I have a very smart ottb who learns fast he no longer goes after me and he wants a leader he wants to learn now after I established leadership and I never seen him so calm. I would hope you have a professional or yourself but be patient and just know your space and see if he will invite you into his space because he knows you allow him to eat grass so you will have to fight a habit and just like me I know you’re pain it’s ass but it’s rewarding if you have the time and energy. Best of luck!
I think you have lack of respect here.
A couple of rules I would set for this horse. (Not all horses.)
- Never let him eat with a bit in.
Ridden or unridden. Only in a halter when you allow. When you do allow 2 gentle pats on the neck behind his ears, that says yes. Do not pull up on the leadrope to say no. He will try forever as no pull means yes. Instead flick the leadrope when he goes to drop his head.
That is because you say he is gentle and not in pain. He is challenging you in the saddle, you have not said he is challenging you when you are on the ground. Things change again if he challenges you on the ground. In fact if he is hefty like most cobs he probably does not need you to graze him as he will be fat enough in the paddock.
- No treats by hand. Put them in his feedbin instead.
If you can not put a feedbin in without going in with him, halter and lead rope and he does not eat until you give the 2 gentle pats on his neck by his ears and then remove the halter.
If he shows ANY sign at being angry or challenging you on the ground. Get help fast and do not go near him until you have done so.
You can make yourself grass reins. A piece of baling twine on each side that goes from the bit to the d ring on the saddle, just long enough so he can not reach the grass.
If you are riding with contact, that you will need a trainer for, he will not find it so easy to turn his head to your leg.
Thank you for replying Suzie. I don’t know if he’s in pain, I’m praying not but I fear he is as horses I’ve told usually do this when they are? I’m trying to eliminate pain possibilities through chiro, saddle fitter, vet will be next. He’s definitely too plump your absolutely right, Im trying to get it off him now. Food means more to him than any horse Ive met. He does nip occasionally on the ground only since the behavior started five weeks ago and when I’m leading past grass. It’s alot less aggressive than when he does it sometimes ridden. I don’t really ride with a contact and he’s bitless, I haven’t found a bit he seems to like yet as he grinds his teeth with them all. He was floated four months ago. Your training advice is spot on thank you! What should I do when he swings to bite from his back do you think? I have been anxious about punishment per say Incase he’s in pain so just give him a quick tug on reins so far when he does it. Thanks again x
Thanks so much for replying, what was the reason with yours? Did he swing round to bite when ridden too? Mines so bloody intermittent I don’t know what to think. Yesterday we rode two hours without a hitch, today he was scowling at a certain part of the field when I tried to ride him away from where he was trying to eat. I will definitely practice your technique if he attempts to nip from the ground, thank you x
If he is in pain you dismount and find out what is wrong.
I am not there and the reason I think it is not pain is you say it is when you want him to leave grass,
Grinding teeth can be pain. It can also be from anxiety. This happens when they do not understand what you want. Or the hands at the other end of the reins are not trained. Not from the bit.
You say he is bitless and that you are trying to yield hindquarters, this is not a natural progression. First you have to get him forward. If he is forward he will not be doing the biting. You can have loose reins to get forward. Forward is your friend. You reins should not be loose enough that he can turn his head.
I am speaking English riding. I don’t know about Western training.
If he is not in pain and does the biting, anything goes. Pull the rein on the other side, use your foot to kick or your whip behind your leg. If it is really bad growl, the moment he turns away, stop all negative and go forward and praise. Use the words Good Boy for when he does right, uh uh for when wrong. He will work his heart out for a good boy.
You can plait baling twine and make a handle from d ring to d ring and hold that, if you feel the need, while using the whip.
Whatever you choose to do when he does it. The same consequence every time. Not the kick first time and whip the second time. The whip every time.
If done correctly you will find you use the whip maybe 3 times, once the next time abd then only occasionally. Maybe a bit longer, if really ingrained
That is with all training, if it is correct it works quickly. If it is incorrect it is either pain or you will be doing it years later.
Which is why getting a good trainer is the fastest way. The problem is you knowing a good trainer from a bad one.
Thanks your reply makes alot of sense. Yes I feel it could be more grass related than pain especially after the replies on here, however he has swung to nip when mounted too, from a mounting block, a couple of times. Other days he doesn’t. He can have parts of the ride walking along ears forward happy as a clam, or a whole ride without incident. I just want to be sure before I start being much firmer. Now you mention the forward, he has definitely become less forward sometimes these past few weeks, stubbornly planting his feet even when I try to lead, other times he follows perfectly if he’s going somewhere interesting!. I will heed your advice and aim to trailer him to a experienced trainer asap. I agree there’s nothing wrong with bits in the wrong hands but we never reached the riding stage in one as I couldn’t find any he seemed able to drink with and he grinded his teeth on it all the time. I guess I should have had a bitting expert out when I backed him two years ago. I am inexperienced in schooling but managed through obbsession and his normally lovely nature, to back him myself. I am reading and re reading your methods to remember them for our next ride. Thank you again x
P.s. it makes such sense what you said because when he’s forward he doesn’t do it. Atall x
Ok the picture here is a young cob, a pushy breed like many draft horses. Naturally docile temper has allowed you to get on his back a noodle around bitless for 2 years but you absolutely don’t know what you are doing or how to build a good foundation on the ground or on his back. And now you have hit a point where the various training holes are starting to show. How old is he?
Honestly the most dangerous horse to the rest of us at our barn is a cob who is basically docile but pushes his owner around, dives for grass, and regularly gets loose and gallops back to the barn spooking other riders. He’s more of a menace than the actual race horses on furlow because their owners are pro TB people and don’t take risks.
Now that you’ve got him started you need some intelligent input for the next steps. First you need a good groundwork trainer most likely from a Western background. Horse is blowing through all your cues on the ground, of course he’s going to do that under saddle too.
Ouch!. I wouldn’t say I’m clueless, he’s been a dream thus far and 99 percent of the time is excellent, I do believe my relentless dedication over the years has something to do with it not just a case of a “placid cob”. However I do need help with schooling yes. He’s actually a dream to handle and ride 99 percent of the time which is why this recent behaviour is so troubling. I believe with dedication and passion, such as hours upon hours of learning via Warwick Schiller/sam vanfleets tutorials and the like, that anyone with enough drive can make a good job of a youngster. He is far from a menace I can assure you, I don’t think there is a horse in the world who doesn’t run into a stumbling block upon their journey at one point or another. Thanks anyway
The fact that you can’t easily figure out how to stop this very basic behavior issue that’s developed on your watch says that you don’t know what you don’t know. There’s no shame in that. Find a good local trainer who is compatible with Warwick Schiller and go learn from them. There is so much about timing tact and observation that you can only learn in person.
You have missed my point, I do not want to resort to shutting down his voice without knowing for sure he is not in pain.
I was unsure how to stop him doing this from his back yes, but not from the ground. It’s not a typical bucking/rearing/bolting issue. Again, in any case my point is I am concerned it may not be a training issue. He has turned to nip when mounting a couple of times not only when near grass hence why it could be pain. Very recent behaviour and I don’t believe in ignoring them when I don’t know what’s definitely going on.
OP I suggest posting this on the horse and hound forum. Members there might be able to point it you to a trainer or a vet who can help you sort this out.
No never when I was riding but more so when he stopped he would go bite at my foot.
Cause was for my horse was a lack of understanding and leadership from me. I had a trainer help me and she showed me some tips that I said before. But it could be pain but I am gonna assume there’s no pain. I say go find a trainer and rule out what it could be
A horse I knew that grew increasingly more nippy towards me while leading, started biting at my legs but also bit his own sides, flank, and legs even when untacked/no one on his back had PSSM and I think he was just really tight and uncomfortable in his body.
When you mount you should have the reins. He should not be able to turn to nip you. Tighten the rein away from you. He should stand still during and after mounting, while you wiggle around, change stirrup lengths, etc, etc. I like to tap them with the dressage whip in several places from poll to dock on both sides. So as nothing is a surprise in the future.
