Horse bucking when saddle put on

[Ceddie]

Apologies in advance for length of post

My horse over the last month has developed a weird habit of bucking when getting tacked up.

some days I will put saddle on and he will go tense and do a small jump on the spot, other days will be absolutely fine and on other days once tacked up will buck in hand all the way to mounting block.
As soon as I sit in saddle he relaxes instantly and none of this behaviour translates when ridden. He goes very soft and relaxed through the back.

now yesterday whilst I brought him into his outdoor yard a guy was using a strimmer nearby horse slightly tense because of this but groomed fine etc and wasn’t overly stressed just tense through body. I tacked up and out saddle on righted girth and as I turned to get bridle he pulled back on lead rope and panicked leading to him reading and then smashing through a fence and cutting his legs in process.

Now i I am unsure whether this is down to the strimmer or due to his recent behaviour.

Now im really confused saddle has been checked by a fitter recently and fits perfect.
He has just turned 6 and isn’t the most mature occasionally when leading he passages alongside you and does mini rears when he feels good over the last year this has gotten less frequent.

And nz again to reiterate he rides like a dream no inclination of any back pain whilst riding and as much I like to think my horse likes me if he had back pain I’m pretty sure he would dump me on the ground in a split second.
But the last month is just bizarre
im not sure if it’s a gut thing but again because of how he goes mounted I’m perplexed why he wouldn’t do any stuff then.
im not sure if he’s just being a baby horse and if it’s just a phase which he will mature out off.
But due to his last episode and him injuring himself I’m now quite concerned.
but have not put a saddle on him today due to his legs.

has anyone else experienced anything similar to this or would have any ideas?
I will be having a vet come out but just wondered from yourselves if this has happened as never had a horse do this before

Thanks in advance

[NancyM]

Your horse, apparently, has a problem. He’s been trying to tell you this, but you have been carrying on as usual, tacking him up and riding him, and not listening to him, not solving his problem for him. IDK why he is going well while being ridden, perhaps he is trying to ignore his issues to try to please you during riding? Sometimes horses can be quite stoic with pain issues. But his problems ARE there. And you know they are there, yet have not yet solved them. Your next step is to engage input from professionals, as you are doing with your upcoming veterinary exam. A veterinarian has been to vet school for a number of years, and have substantial testing in their knowledge acquisition at some point in their lives. Saddle fitters have not. Keep in mind that not all saddle fitters are created equal, and advice you have been given previously by such a person may or may not be accurate. Sometimes people claim expertise that they do not actually have, yet give advice to others. Your issue may still be saddle related. Hopefully your vet will have better luck in finding the source of the problem. A training coach would be your next step in helping you to decipher the many things your horse is telling you with some of the described behaviour.

A hint for you… If you have a horse who you know is not comfortable for any reason (physical issue, mental stress, greenness, unknown issue etc) and who is clearly telling you that there IS an issue, DON’T tie him to anything. Because if the explosion happens, things can be much worse than they may be otherwise. ALWAYS give an uncomfortable horse a “way out” if necessary. To avoid the other option, should it occur. Good luck with your veterinary visit.

[AnastasiaBeaverhousen]

Your horse is in pain.
Can you find another saddle fitter?
Do you have access to a chiropractor?
is there a trainer that you can work with to help you?

Take a saddle pad and a girth and put them on. If he doesn’t react then it could be the saddle.

He may be cold backed.

He may have ulcers.

Consult with a vet and and a trainer who works with young horses to help you assess whether his issues are physical or behavioral.

please be careful. This horse could hurt you if he keeps reacting like this.

Hope this helps.
Let us know how it goes.

[Moosequito]

How tight is the girth when you’re tacking up? I’ve known a few horses who need the girth to stay very loose until they’ve had the opportunity to walk a little bit. There were underlying stomach issues that caused this, but they’d have episodes like the ones you’re describing in the cross tries unless the girth was loose.

[Posting_Trot]

Just given the scenario you’ve sketched, it really sounds like saddle-fit, despite the fact that a saddle-fitter has said that the saddle is good.

The horse apparently disagrees.

Did the saddle-fitter assess the fit with whatever pad you’re currently using? Sometimes adding a pad to a saddle that fits can radically alter the fit.

Have you tried putting a different saddle on him? Do you get the same result?

If you palpate the horse’s back, do you get a reaction?

[2DogsFarm]

Had to Google for this - but it rang a bell.
Check out the path of the Vagus Nerve - girth pinching could cause the problem you describe:

https://www.justanswer.com/horse-health/1eg0i-course-vagus-nerve-horse-exits.html

[hoopoe]

often it is a girthing issue not a saddle. It is why they call it “being girthy”

as mentioned, do have a vet out and consider treating for ulcers. the gradual tightening of the girth is often useful. Make sure you stretch the forelegs to make sure there are no skin pinches.

this is not baby behavior and neither should the naughty behavior on the lead be tolerated.

[My_Two_Cents]

Are you getting on from the ground? Is it possible that something is not right with his saddle when you are getting on? Pinching or a pressure point? He could be anticipating pain while you are getting ready and then once you are on the pain part is gone.Try just bringing him in for some treats and brushing for a few days and see if he relaxes a bit but don’t reward bad behavior.

[Scribbler]

After an incident like this go back to basics with stand and tie. The horse has created a trauma memory from this incident and may be more prone to repeat the behavior especially in the same area.

IME having two stimuli, neither of which alone would lead to panic, can add up to an explosion. Here you have spooky noise plus painful saddle.

You need to pay a lot more attention to this horses behavior on moment by moment basis and perhaps do some calming groundwork. Because even once you get the saddle or health problems fixed he may remember the pain and the panic and be a problem for you.

[Ceddie]

UPDATE
Vet came out and showed her what he does so saddle goes on lead him to mountain block and he proceeds to cowkick as he goes. Mount on up and instantly relaxes
Vet initially thought ulcers, used camera to have a feel around and did blood tests etc to rule other things as well.
She got into contact with me today a few days after and to my joy and also confusion has given him a clean bill of health. His stomach is fine, his saddle is fine, his back and muscles are fine

so I’m back to square one with what it could be vet personally thinks horse could be immature. She asked if he had a strong day to day routine which I said yes and she asked if he had done other strange behaviour in past. Mentioned that he would prance along side you when leading never pulled or went into your personal space, also that he used to go through a phase of bucking and tearing without fail as soon as he was turned back out into paddock, and other random quirks

she potentially thinks this could be a new one which she says has been added into the routine and a bit of groundwork and time and may grow out of it

I’m still not 100% sure or whether to get a second vet to take a look

[bitranchy]

I would be inclined to think the saddling issue is separate from the trimmer incident.

As 2DogsFarm mentioned, it’s possible you’re stimulating the vagus nerve with how you girth your horse up. Personally, I girth my horse up enough that the saddle’s secure but not tight. I’ll tighten it once we’re in the arena and I’m ready to get on. Since it seems that the problem is intermittent, I would be inclined to reevaluate the type of girth I’m using and how I go about saddling and girthing up the horse. That isn’t to say forgo any considerations as to whether or not the horse is in pain, but to explore it on top of that. When you’re grooming, ensure there’s not any grit or bedding that may bother him where the saddle and girth sit.

[MsM]

I have known "cold backed " horses that were never diagnosed with an ailment.
My suggestion is, first to start with reinforcing correct behavior in hand. Spend some time and attention requiring that he respect your space, etc. (But don’t pick a frosty morning to start! )
I also might work on longeing. Perhaps longe him without a saddle when you first bring him in. Require good behavior but let him move out,stretch, and get out some energy. Then longe him again briefly after saddling. Gradually tighten the girth during longeing.
His reaction this may help you figure out where the issues are.

[halt]

@Ceddie

UPDATE
Vet came out and showed her what he does so saddle goes on lead him to mountain block and he proceeds to cowkick as he goes. Mount on up and instantly relaxes
Vet initially thought ulcers, used camera to have a feel around and did blood tests etc to rule other things as well.
She got into contact with me today a few days after and to my joy and also confusion has given him a clean bill of health. His stomach is fine, his saddle is fine, his back and muscles are fine

so I’m back to square one with what it could be vet personally thinks horse could be immature. She asked if he had a strong day to day routine which I said yes and she asked if he had done other strange behaviour in past. Mentioned that he would prance along side you when leading never pulled or went into your personal space, also that he used to go through a phase of bucking and tearing without fail as soon as he was turned back out into paddock, and other random quirks

she potentially thinks this could be a new one which she says has been added into the routine and a bit of groundwork and time and may grow out of it

I’m still not 100% sure or whether to get a second vet to take a look

Your horse is exhibiting classic backsore behavior. That can be caused by any number of things:

• illness (Lyme, EPM, PSSM, etc)
• poor saddle fit
• kissing spine
• broken withers and/or cervical issues
• ulcers either in the stomach (scopable) or hindgut (not scopable)
• SI injury

That is not a comprehensive list, but it’ll get you started. What do you mean she had a camera to feel around. Did she scope your horse? What blood tests did she do specifically?

I would be seriously investigating his back and saddle fit. I had a gelding who had a saddle fit him on paper flawlessly but he still got serious SI damage because for whatever reason, it was not the right fit for him.

He is telling you he does not like something about the time period between when you pull him out and you get him on. Most people capable of sleuthing would be able to tell he does not like being tacked up. Why? Is it the saddle, or is it him physically? If it were me I would get a different fitter out AND x-rays of his back and wither.

How are you tacking up your horse? I would be very slowly tacking him up, and very slowly doing the girth. None of my horses are girthy, and that is because when I put the saddle on them, I do so very gently - with my palm on their back as I ease the saddle in place. So many people just toss and throw the saddle over their back - I cannot stand to see that! Horses do not like it. When I put the girth on, it is so loose you can see daylight through it. I gradually tighten the girth over the course of the next 10m, never more than 2 holes at a time. If I am honest, I leave the girth pretty loose while I ride too, as I don’t see how a girth done snugly is possibly comfortable but I digress.

Do you have any videos of him moving? Is he sound?

[LookmaNohands]

I had a horse come to me for training a while back because after saddling he would drop to his knees when asked to walk forward. I had an Osteopath out and she said he had some ribs out. She fixed them and the behavior stopped. I would check his girth and rib area. Even their sternum can be sore. Have you tried a different girth?

I would also work on the leading behavior. It sounds like he is tense and if that creates tension in his shoulder and girth area, that could be part of the problem.