Horse bucks when asked to move forward while eating

[MsM]

With this particular horse, certainly no grazing while riding for a long time - maybe never. She has a bad habit that can get you hurt.

I also agree with getting more training and trail buddies if possible.

My trail rides tend to be on ungroomed woodland trails. Lots of leaves dangling enticingly. I also allow the leaf snatch as long as we keep going. It does take a bit for a new horse to understand the parameters but mine eventually understood and I was never in a vulnerable position with the horse’s head on the ground. One horse was very hot and nervous on trails at first (previous owner ran him a lot on trails) I allowed leaf grabbing and he mellowed out when he came to view trails as “directed browsing”

[OzarksRider]

@Ninetails42, can you give us a little more information about your mare? How long have you had her? What kind of lesson program was she in? How experienced were her riders? How old is she (I’m thinking maybe mid-teens with the PPID diagnosis)?

Do you know if she ever bucked with any of the lesson riders? I’m wondering if she learned with previous riders that bucking will get her out of work or if this is something entirely new. If it’s new, I would get a very thorough exam to be 100% sure this isn’t related to pain.

If the bucking isn’t caused by pain then she most likely doesn’t see you as her leader, at least not when she wants to eat. I agree with those who advise you to get a trainer who can cowboy through her fits to break this bad habit, but like GraceLikeRain said, not in an overly punitive way. Ultimately, though, you’re going to have to earn the leader position, so look for someone who can teach you how to establish leadership. Can your current trainer work with you on this?

I have one groundwork suggestion that you might try. Put her in a round pen with some tasty hay or something else that she really likes. Take a lunge whip (or stick and string, as Western riders call it) with you into the pen. When she’s eating the hay, make her move off it and you take her spot. Be assertive but not overly aggressive. Walk deliberately towards her while waving the stick back and forth and make it clear that you expect her to move. Use as much pressure as it takes to make her move. If she doesn’t move, smack the whip on the ground. And if she gives you an attitude smack her with the whip, but be sure to stay out of kick range. You’re not going to injure her, and she won’t hold a grudge. If you watch how horses interact in the field, the alpha horse will first pin her ears when she wants another horse to move. If that doesn’t work, the next item on the menu is a bite on the butt. And if that doesn’t work the bite will be followed by a kick. You need to be the alpha horse. The goal is for your mare to move away from her hay pile and let you have it, and to do it with respect. This means she moves away with no argument and then turns to face you. When you’ve eaten as much hay as you want you can walk away and let her have some.

[colorfan]

What a bummer that happened, I’m glad you didn’t get hurt.

I have really stopped thinking in terms of ‘they won’, for all the horse knows you intended to walk home,
Plus it takes the personalness out of it. Horses didn’t win, you didn’t lose.
It shows a hole in the training. I probably would have done a considerable amount of groundwork right there! I do believe there is a time for make the wrong things difficult.
Anytime I trail ride I have a lead rope with me. Experience has taught me this is wisdom.
In order to teach, to be of any use the ground work needs to be productive; it isn’t ‘just moving the horse’.
Part of groundwork is teaching the horse to move off a cue, then refining the cue, part of the refinement is the horse moves softly but immediately in response to the cue.
Part of groundwork is learning to communicate and refine your skills. Are you consistent? Do you speak clearly, in other words can the horse understand, distinguish one cue from the other?
Part of groundwork is to teach the horse to manage their emotions.
Dobbin is just fine in his corral, what happens if you try to do the same groundwork exercise over there… or over there with the truck running or…
I don’t know your confidence level but in a similar situation, after upping the in hand work game, I would do some groundwork, then walk the mare down the trail a ways, do some more in hand work, move her down the trail let her eat a bit, then do some more in hand work.
Is it possible to have someone ride with you?

[Incantation]

@colorfan

I have really stopped thinking in terms of ‘they won’, for all the horse knows you intended to walk home,

This. Once you start thinking of it as winning and losing, you set yourself and your horse up for a battle.

[TWH_Girl]

@endlessclimb

My personal exception is if it’s mouth height. They can’t put their heads down but if they take a drive by while still marching on, whatever. If someone ran an oreo right past my mouth I’d go for it too.

agree w mouth high grazing. and ditto on Oreos

Two hours of drilling the horse afterwards is not cool though as most have pointed out. Yikes.

[IPEsq]

I have one horse who can politely go on a “hack and snack”. My other horse—no grazing with the bit. We have tried it, and the first time he threw a tantrum about moving along was the last time he had that privilege. At least I’m not one to get dumped easily. But he mostly did a lot of backing up and spinning. There are some horses we hack out with who are allowed to eat. If we are waiting on them, we stand there and wait without eating if I’m riding. He can eat in hand when I invite him to do so.

I think this horse will probably grow out of it with maturity and more training. I had another young horse who used to take a mouthful of wild alfalfa when we’d ride out, and the chewing would help him focus. When he ran out, baby brain came back and he needed another bite. He threw one tantrum about leaving a field of alfalfa once, and I rode it out, and he never did it again and could still hack with some alfalfa pacifier snacks. Current young horse is too smart and would escalate I’m afraid, so for now the boundary is firm.

This former lesson horse seems to have learned the bucking works, and it might not be something that can be undone for you in the near future. So I would not allow eating under saddle. Perhaps practice getting off, allowing some food (do not allow eating until you dismount and give her her head), asking her to move away some from the food and stand. Then get on and continue. Is there a place at home where you could do this? Like an area with grass bordering on dirt where you can practice first taking her away in hand first but only a short distance? Mount on dirt and move on.

[jvanrens]

@IPEsq

So I would not allow eating under saddle.

ETA: Agree 100%

After being half way hauled off my first pony’s back when he decided it was snack time, numerous times, was about when I decided no eating under saddle, even when tempting snacks are waving beside your nose on a trail ride. My horses have always had lots of time to eat, giving it up for an hour or so isn’t too much to ask for in return.

[Night_Flight]

@Ninetails42

Saddle was fitted by a professional company that came out, took measurements, tried out about 10 different saddles and I bought from them directly

How long ago did you purchase the saddle? Has it been refitted after being broken in, or following any changes in your horse’s musculature or body condition?