An acquaintance asked me if I knew any breeders or repro vets that wanted her very rank (multiple people injured kind of rank) middling-achieving mare because she didn’t want to deal with her anymore. I believe I deflected because wow, nothing about that description says “Yes, this is the perfect fit for my broodmare/recipient herd! Exactly the characteristics I want a foal to be raised around!”
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RIGHT??
Ugh… 
But anyways… i wanna know how blue_heron’s search is going. Kinda wish i had a nice youngster for sale but hubby won’t allow me to make more unless i sell my bebehs before weaning, soo… lol i don’t plan on having any more rideable horses for sale for a while. And the one lovely rideable mare i have is the one making said bebehs - she ain’t goin’ anywhere. 
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Well… short answer: I don’t know.
Long answer (tell me if I’m crazy): Went to see filly on Sunday. She is a few hours from me, on consignment at a reputable facility that does training/sales/breeding. I have never dealt with them personally but know people who have and never heard a complaint. So, I’m dealing with the agent on the farm, not owners. My regular trainer is not involved in my purchasing process right now; I’m the odd one out as far as clients go and haven’t seen much of her since I’m not lessoning right now. Trainer hasn’t seen filly except for a video and I let her know I was going to see the horse.
Filly has been on the market since the summer and agent mentioned that they’ve not had a ton of interest, which doesn’t really surprise me… filly has a couple of things (not health related, that I know of) that would not make her a good prospect for resale by a professional and probably not going to win classes in Wellington. She belongs to young-er rider who is off showing someone else’s horses and parents are paying for horse on consignment. Filly is a little outside of my budget, though I could pay the full asking price and wouldn’t have to live off PBJ and Ramen. I still think she’s priced a little high. I asked agent prior to seeing filly if I could make an offer, and she did not say owners had specifically said they would take offers but seemed to think they might be open to it.
I really liked her. This is a smart horse, definitely would not tolerate unfair riding and probably not super forgiving of Regular Ammy mistakes. I’m honestly not quite sure who is going to buy this horse but me or someone with very similar taste/goals. I asked agent if I could talk to my vet to ask for a recommendation in the area for a PPE and I’d get back to her. I got a recommendation and told agent I would schedule something with this vet if that worked for her. Agent replies that if I want to make an offer I should do so BEFORE the PPE so that everyone is on the same page re. payment/pricing and I don’t waste money on the PPE.
Am I crazy to think this is strange? The PPE is a sunk cost regardless of what you decide about buying the horse. Does agent think I’m going to make an insulting, lowball offer? The results of the PPE have everything to do with how much I’m willing to pay for the horse, or if I’m willing to pay for it at all. I’m also not sure I want to say how much I MIGHT spend on the horse assuming the PPE is clean. I think the agent might be trying to make a sale before the end of the month.
I told the agent that I would be more comfortable considering all the information at once and discussing it with my trainer and vet as a whole. I’m hoping the agent herself is not insulted. I have not heard back. I’m terrible at business deals and I’m terrible at money. I’m always the one to cough up the extra money at the end because I just want the problem to go away. So I’m never comfortable in business negotiations, but of course I’m not going to mention to the agent that I could pay for the horse in full. I don’t know what to think. I just want a pony for Christmas goddammit!!
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@blue_heron, I am first going to admit that I have not bought anything in a long time (15 years or so), but my understanding is that the sales agent is suggesting the typical way it is done.
Make an offer, agree on a price with the seller and that price is contingent on the PPE results. If something comes up during the PPE you can ask for a price reduction (they can say no and then you decide if you want to continue or not), or you can walk away.
No need to do a PPE on a horse who you are wanting for $XXXX and the seller will not going lower than $XXXX+$YYYY.
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I typically will make an offer pending prepurchase exam.
And I phrase it that way… The prepurchase exam may uncovered some things that adjust my offer downwards, but the offer itself is independent of the pre-purchase exam, based on all the other considerations about the horse.
At the very least in the situation, I think it makes sense to float a figure because if you’re “lower than asking” offer is refused, and you can’t come to an agreement, then you are not out the cost of the PPE needlessly…
People do it both ways, there is no right or wrong. What the trainer is suggesting is actually more standard practice.
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I agree with the other posters–make an “I offer $X contingent upon a PPE with no significant unsoundness.” Or, the seller might say beforehand, “when you do the PPE they will find [insert minor issue] but other than that, the horse is sound.” If the PPE brings up an issue not known or disclosed by the seller after the initial offer is accepted, you can always withdraw or amend it.
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Good to know! I’ve bought horses more recently but always for resale and very cheap/free. So much of my current buying experience does not apply. I asked a few of horsey friends and I got mixed reviews back, including that agent was being pushy and a friend who said she’d bought all her horses full price and never made an offer. She’s had 10-15 horses in the years I’ve known her.
Does the 10-20% rule still apply to making an offer? Owner is asking less than 20k and IMO this filly would not be the easiest sell.
What 10-20% rule?
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I have pretty limited buying experience, but I’ll echo what others have said: in my experience, I’ve agreed on a price before doing the PPE, with the price being contingent on PPE results.
As far as what you might be able to offer: offering 10% less is pretty standard, and if you offer 20% less you might end up insulting the sellers. In any case, no matter what you offer, you should expect that, best case scenario, you’ll receive a counter-offer from the sellers. So you should be clear in your own mind about what is the highest price you’d pay.
Good luck!
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Same, price before PPE. Price contingent on PPE results.
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It sounds like you’re willing to pay the asking price if she vets squeaky clean. The fact that she’s at a training/sales barn (especially since this summer?) and hasn’t been started as a coming 4-year-old indicates that someone involved here (whether owners or agent) can’t be particularly motivated.
Negotiating within 10% of the asking price on a sub-$20K horse is going to come out to a matter of a few hundred or maybe $1,000, which in the grand scheme of horses is nothing. Whether that’s worth the extra stress is your call.
Obviously if there are significant PPE findings that changes the conversation.
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I think you’re off by an order of magnitude… 10% on a 20k horse is a couple of months of rent. Still, I agree with you. I don’t think the owner really wants to sell her, but she is not paying for horse to be on consignment.
I will give them an offer and anticipate a counter-offer. If they are offended… oh well, I guess. We are not close.
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I am late chiming in, lol, but I agree that what the agent is suggesting is standard practice around here - agree on a price, get the horse vetted, and if stuff comes up in the vetting you re-negotiate, or walk away.
Last time I sold a riding horse, I was asked if I would consider a slightly lower offer, and I said no as I had a figure in mind I wanted in my pocket and I priced him as low as I was willing to go (and he was by no means overpriced). They said “ok”, he vetted clean, they bought him for full price. I was not insulted, honestly i don’t think there’s any room for hurt feelings or feeling insulted when it comes to dealing with potential buyers, that’s just silly. Sure I might laugh about it privately with friends if someone offers me a fraction of my asking price, but it doesn’t do any good or make any difference to reply sarcastically or nastily to someone. They might not end up being a client, but if I remain polite and good to deal with, they might refer a friend to me in the future. Always good to remain as cordial and professional as possible. It really pays off in the end. 
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As others have said, it’s standard to make an offer contingent on a clean PPE. If there are findings on the PPE then that voids your initial offer and you can make a new offer based on the findings.
As far as making offers, it’s totally up to you. I looked at a grade PRE cross that was at a consignment barn. After trying her I felt she was priced high and didn’t feel comfortable offering less than 10-20% less. She also had some conformational stuff I knew my vet wouldn’t be thrilled about. Anyway, some time goes by and all of a sudden owner lists the horse themselves and is accepting any offers. Turns out they had been very motivated to sell this whole time though that wasn’t the impression given by the agent. In retrospect I could have made an low offer. So it’s really hard to know with consignment barns.
Also in typical fashion when I tried the horse and asked what the cross was, I was told PRE x WB which I didn’t really believe. When I contacted the owner afterwards, turned out the horse was registered PRE x arab.
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That is how I bought my mare. Signed a contract with a named price, pending PPE. Did PPE a few weeks later and decided I wanted her for that price, which was, TBH, a bit high for what she turned out to be. Almost 14 years later, I still love her anyway.
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Didn’t work out-- people who had decided she was too small in the fall changed their mind after four months of deliberating, with a “price match guarantee” on whatever I offered. Maybe they weren’t happy with whatever they got for Christmas.
WHAT??? OMG that is CRAP!!! I’m so sorry. 
Disappointing for sure, but I do not think there was anything nefarious. I think they happened to inquire about the horse again, were told someone else was interested, and did some emotional decision making.
I’m pretty familiar with people with all the money and none of the sense (can’t confirm, but that’s the energy I was getting). Years ago a friend bought a very nice young horse and brought it home. A lady had looked at the same horse a week ago, wanted it, but was talked out of this horse and into another horse by her trainer, who thought the other horse was more suitable. A week after she bought the home, the lady’s husband shows up in her driveway with his sportscar and chequebook and asks my friend to buy the horse. He’ll write a cheque for double the amount she paid, on the spot. She told him how much she paid. She says she’s never seen a man turn red, white, and blue at the same time. But he wrote the cheque. Apparently his wife had been inconsolable for a week after trainer convinced her to buy this other horse.
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What a sweet man to do that for his wife.
Sorry to hear the horse hunting troubles.
My list of recent fails involve me spending a whole trial where the seller was talking down a PPE and me talking up a PPE. The seller started with a high pressure sales tactic and, surprisingly we couldn’t agree to favorable terms to get the horse PPE’d before Christmas. I left telling them I’d check in after Christmas and after a couple of hours the “horse sold”.
Yep, you guessed it, saw a re-listed on the horse right after Christmas.
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