I’ve had my purebred gray Arabian gelding for about a year. No papers - no idea of who he is. We are hoping to match markings with AHA Datasource to hopefully ID him. He is presumed to be around 19 years old. The process will be tedious - going through all the males around that age. Assuming he was ever registered. He could have been registered gray or his foal/base coat. Narrowing down the color group would be very helpful. He has a few strands of darkish gray in his mane which is otherwise “white”. Could that eliminate him having been a chestnut foal? I would think only black and bay Arabs could have gray strands in their manes? This horse also has lots of scars. Wherever he’s had an injury the hair has grown in black. (fence accidents or whip marks - don’t know). Also - what percentage of born bay Arabians turn gray? I don’t recall ever seeing a bay go through stages to gray. From my description - which order would you use to go through hundreds of horses? I’m thinking: 1: Gray 2: Black 3 and 4: Bay or Chestnut. Thanks in advance !!!
I’ve seen more young TBs than Arabs. Yes, bays go grey. But colts often go grey so fast that they look light roan by the time they are yearlings.
As far as your Arab gelding’s base colour being black, there are in fact very few true black Arabs.
I do know a grey horse that was born chestnut, and to the extent he’s kept a bit of dappling, it is grey and not red.
Thanks. For registration purposes the choices are gray, black, bay and chestnut. To make the search more difficult for example - he could have been registered as a foal as black and stallion. The papers might never have been updated to gray gelding. The “scar hair” on him is something I’ve never seen before. It looks like he tangled with a barbed wire fence or was whipped severely. There are lots of lines of black hair on his gray coat. The lesson kids ask me how he got his stripes. Not all of his injuries do that. He had scrapes and bite marks on him when I got him. Those healed with gray hair as one would expect. It’s almost like wherever he was “sliced” open the hair grew in black and appears to be permanent. . Something else I wonder about with him…is there a reason he heals like that? . Thanks again any help. To add: I suppose it’s possible that what I’m seeing is not black hair but is actually his black skin and hair did not grow back. He has a very fine/thin hair coat. I think I’d need a magnifying glass to see if it’s black hair or black skin we’re seeing. I’m hoping that if is indeed black hair that would be a lead to his base color.
Color testing is not expensive.
http://www.vgl.ucdavis.edu/services/horsecolorpanel.php
http://www.animalgenetics.us/Equine/Cost_Dollar.asp
Red factor and agouti will tell you black, bay or chestnut based. Toss in grey, maybe… If he’s homozygous, both sire and dam were grey.
I know nothing about color genetics but we have several milk white PRE horses that all have black skin their scars show black
Black SKIN? or black HAIR?
I have a bay mare, and at least some of her scars have come back with black hair, and others with white hair.
I can’t think of many instances where a gray horse is mis-registered as “birth color” instead of gray (or gr/ro for TBs). It’s quite obvious on most foals within moments of birth-- they are born very dark, adult-shade, rather than flaxen/mousy foal color, and they have “gray goggles” around the eyes. By weaning, there is usually significant roaning throughout the coat. And the breeder would know if there is a gray parent, there is at least 50/50 chance of gray foal. It’s quite unlikely that your horse was registered as bay, chestnut, or any color other than gray.
I would expect those scars to be from an accident, likely wire. Honestly whipping as hard as you like just doesn’t break the skin.
Scars on other horses can grow in white.
You also don’t know he’s a purebred Arab yet. Some crosses are very typey.
Really? I have one. Never thought it was all that uncommon. She went through Keeneland Nov as a weanling, in the catalogue (and registered) as “dark bay or brown.” Color updated to grey at some point before I purchased her as an unbacked two year old. Both sire and dam were grey, so you’d think they would have been extra careful to go over her, but even at two, she was still VERY dark.
He could have been almost black all the way to chestnut when he was born. I have a very handsome chestnut whose dam and sire were grey. Two of that grey dam’s foals were chestnut. Looked a lot like her sire Clovis Bey.
I had a grey with very serious injuries as a foal. Ripped his chest and face open. His coat did not grow in black where the scars were. One of the greys had a very dark mane and tail long after his coat went grey. His dam was a bay. So, yes a grey can have black hair in their manes.
An Arab foal that will be a grey will show light hairs around their eyes at birth. Out of many grey foals, we never had one that didn’t show that. And, they were all born dark.
Around 19 years ago, AHA began DNA testing. I do not know if they can run a match for you. Sort of like ancestry.com which has its own foibles.
You didn’t say how you acquired the horse. But, perhaps you could talk to the last owner and go from there backwards.
And, are you relying on the previous owner to know his age or your vet?
Unless you want to show him in Arab shows, you don’t need his registration history. Or, at least I can’t think of a reason you would. Good luck. You have an interesting mystery to solve.
This is going to be your best bet at narrowing it down with certainty. You will know the exact birth color and in some cases be able to figure out what colors the parents would have been, which will help limit the number of records that need to be looked through at least somewhat.
To Eventer’s point - Arabian breeders are very good at knowing which foals will turn grey. TB breeders may not be, because grey TB’s, while relatively common, are not as common as grey Arabs. But generally, if one parent is grey, you hold off on registration until the early and obvious signs that the foal will turn grey become apparent.
If I were looking to see if your horse was ever registered, I would start with foals registered as grey. If nothing pans out, then you might start checking the other colors.
I have a blue roan QH, and it is normal for any cut/ding to grow back in the base color, which for a blue roan, is black. He was a ranch horse, so he has quite a few “corn marks.” He scraped himself rolling in turnout and that grew back white, but I bet it will grow back his normal roan color next spring. The black corn marks are all over, but on one side more than the other. I would think you’d be able to tell whip marks from being in the same location?
Grey foals registered as any but grey are rather common.
We had one absolutely brown horse without any white on him start turning grey at four and be absolutely white by ten, still with black skin, of course, as grey horses are, other than where they have white markins.
I just changed the registrated color to grey on my 13 year old grey gelding, that has been for very long obviously grey.
A horse without papers can be anything, not sure your horse is arabian, much less pure arabian.
There are plenty of grade horses that look arabian and many quarter horse cutting lines that also look arabian if you didn’t know who they are.
Hope you can find some way to determine what your horse is, since it seems important to you.
I called the AHA regarding my own mare. They started DNA testing in 2003. So if his age is correct they would not have his DNA in their database.
They do DNA matching for Dam and Sire, as well as the horse in question. I believe it was $140 + the yearly membership fee.
However that does not guarantee you can get the papers even if he is registered. They still require the previous owner to sign the papers over.
My mare is about 11 yrs old and is grey with black points, mane and tail. I was told she was a chestnut, but that does not make any sense. I am sure mine was born Bay.
And yes every single bite or cut comes in black. Drives me nuts.
He is def. a purebred Arabian. I don’t need to have his papers. I just want to know who he is. I could then try to contact a previous owner - or see if any show history on file. The latter to see what kind of training he might have had - what discipline he knows. He came from the kill pen in Dallas. I had just lost a horse due to old age and was looking for another horse. A friend told me about a FB rescue group for Arabians that are in kill pens. BTW I was horrified to learn that hundreds of Arabians end up in kill pens every month. Most of them don’t have their papers. After they are purchased new owners work with folks who try to ID them using Datasource. Grays obviously the most difficult. Some are ID’d via DNA on file. My horse would be too old for that. Now that he has gained weight I see things that remind me of a certain family of Arabians. If he can be ID’d and he is of that line of Arabians - it would be an incredible coincidence. Hence - the search is on.
To your question about the mane - no, dark hairs do not eliminate chestnut. My horse (in photo) has a black and white mane and his base coat was chestnut.
Is he flea bitten? That also suggests a chestnut base coat.
Could the black stripes be brindling? Horses don’t have true brindling as a color, but it happens when the horse is a chimera
You did look for a microchip somewhere?
Thanks. So chestnut as base is still in the running. No - not brindling. Def. scars. Yes - vets did check for microchips. None found - from previous owners or the KP. The scarring is mostly on his chest and hindquarters. It’s quite obvious. There are lines of them. He also has some weird scarring on the back of his hind pasterns - matching ones. That scarring - which protrudes - is similar to whatever the leg chestnuts are made of. Fence injury or rope burns? Also trying to figure that out. Poor guy. He is a nice horse. If I can ID him I might be able to find out what the “h” happened to him. If someone purposely did this to him I’d wish that person to be shipped over the border to a cruel fate where this horse was headed.
