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Horse Community-Help! I am at a loss. Horse not comfortable. But not lame

I am at a complete loss. My mare is not comfortable, somewhere. Last vet described her as a “conundrum”. I will try not to make this a novel, but please take the time to read below if you feel you may have insight as to what is bothering my horse.

Background: I have owned her since she was 6 months old. She is 15 now. Sweetest thing in the world. My absolute heart horse. Will always have a forever spot in my backyard. I have been the only owner and rider. I began riding her when she was 4 and she was easy peasy, soft, relaxed. We slowly worked toward more balance and collection. We jumped, a little. Did some casual schooling shows. I never had/do not have any goals with her, I just want to enjoy her because she truly is that much of a treasure. After a few years, her way of going progressively became different.

How the “issue” began: First, she would swap off in the canter behind tracking left. I immediately had vet out. She had just turned 7. They performed a lameness exam with no significant findings. Tested for EPM and Vitamin E deficiency. Negative EPM, low Vit E. She was put on a Vit E and Selenium supplement (our hay in this area is low with Selenium) and has lived on that since that day.

How the “issue” progressed (over the next 3 years): She started to be a little less relaxed in her work. More tense. Struggled with connection and developed quite a sore back. Began “3 tracking”. Very crooked to the right (haunches way to the inside) and haunches falling out to the outside tracking left. Began having major difficulty cantering/maintaining cantering. Was almost “up and down/ bunny hopping” in canter. Jump became hollow. I stopped jumping her. Engaging hind end and lifting her back became difficult. She became so anxious with a bit (chomping, chewing, gnawing (not the good kind of soft chewing) that I took the bit away and she since then has been bitless or in her hackamore. Her walk changed. It became lateral/stabby. She became a touch “cold backed”. Quite stiff the first few steps under saddle and sometimes a touch of a hump in her back on a cold day. She was uncomfortable to ride. Never lame. Very quick/ strung out in her walk when we would trail ride. Sweat ALOT (from anxiety? pain?) I think I felt/feel it more than one can see it. She does not feel what I consider normal, at all. Far from it. Her way of going is embarrassing. I feel terrible. I know something is not right, somewhere.

How I addressed the issue (throughout those 3 years): Numerous vet lameness exams (from 3 different vets). X-rays of fetlocks, hocks, stifles (no significant findings other than slight bone spavin R hock). Hocks injected several times. Stifles injected. Saddle fitters, different saddles. 4 shoes, 2 shoes, no shoes, aluminum shoes, steel shoes.Lyme titer testing. Month of strictly trail riding. 2 months of just walk and trotting. Acupuncture, chiropractic work. Previcox, joint supplements, ulcer treatment. Strict riding routines with poles and cavalettis, exercises to build up hind end. PSSM safe diest. Short based lunge work. Adequan and Legend. NOTHING CHANGED. Bareback it is the same It progress to the point I was not comfortable riding her anymore because I KNEW something was.not.right. Always up to date with vaccine/dental. Different lessons with different trainers.

I just stopped. She was too precious for me to continue riding her at this time when she was telling me in the most polite way possible she isn’t comfortable. I brought her home in my backyard and loved on her for FIVE YEARS. No riding.

I discussed kissing spine throughout the years, no vet pursued that as an option.

The situation, currently: I began riding her again in May (about 2 months ago). I had the dream of her feeling herself again after all this time. NOPE. She feels exactly the same. Worse actually (but to be expected with being off for so long). I have only been doing a 15 minute walk trot in the ring followed by a 15 minute walk around the property 3 days a week. I have cantered twice and it was so horrendous I have decided not to pursue cantering at this time.

I had a different vet out yesterday to evaluate her. Gave them all her previous paperwork. They watched me lunge her and they watched me ride her. They flexed her. They palpated her. Arthritis in hocks. They called her a conundrum and said “Well, no judge would pull you, she’s not lame”. Recommended 3 weeks of additional trot work with poles and add the canter and “get her to collect more”. SHE. CAN’T. DO. THAT.

I.AM.DESPERATE. I am in tears. This horse is gold. A treasure. Truly remarkable. Throughout this, she never once told me “no”. She’d walk through fire if I asked her to.

Can ANYONE help!? Have ideas!? I have begun magnwaving her. It has helped the soreness in her back. But, WHY did her way of going change? WHAT caused/is causing it!?

To add a little about me: I am a professional in the industry and manage a college equine program and collegiate riding team. I have my fancy sport horses I can enjoy. But, I want my QH back.

Please, any thought, any idea. I will welcome it. Thank you horse community <3.

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Has her back ever been x-rayed? I know you mentioned that kissing spines was brought up and the vets didn’t pursue it, but I’d want to get imaging on her back just to rule it out, if nothing else. I didn’t see the back in your list of things that have been x-rayed.

I had a mare that was sore in her back and became progressively more and more uncomfortable under saddle. Like you, I pursued all sorts of things: body work, chiropractic, saddle fit (worked with two different fitters and tried a variety of saddles and pads), diet changes, time off, work on the lunge in a pessoa-type system to strengthen her back, etc. The local vet I initially took her to did not pursue kissing spines, but I eventually took her to a specialist that x-rayed her back, and there it was. Definitely kissing spines.

Whatever is going on with your mare may or may not be kissing spines, but if she hasn’t had her back x-rayed, I’d start there.

I hope you can figure it out!! Your mare sounds like an absolute gem, and she’s very lucky to have you!

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what’s the whole diet? Some think it’s just more like an IR horse, reducing NSC/carbs, but don’t realize it also needs to be about adding fat for the energy they aren’t getting from glucose.

has she actually been tested for PSSM1?

This is one area where I’d invest in the EquiSeq PSSM2 (MIM) testing

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I would consider the possibility of some PSSM2 variant based on the symptoms and the age at which they started.

The test JB mentions would probably be relevant in this case. I have a horse that I suspect is PSSM2, he needs a very high level of protein to be able to function well enough to canter.

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Sounds a lot like my horse - uncomfortable, hates being ridden, but not lame. I have a post about it (100+ comments if you want to check for ideas). I did years and years of diagnostics and treatments with different vets and non-ridden rehab work. Pretty much everything you listed I also did. She’s my heart horse and is such a pleasure to work with otherwise, she tries SO hard, but as soon as someone’s on her back she does a 180 in personality. Same stuff you listed - chomping at the bit, nose in the air, hollow through the back. She also sweats a lot and starts to breathe like a dragon. I had a lot of people tell me it was a training issue and sometimes I almost believe it, but knowing this horse I just can’t accept that. Also will say she absolutely cannot canter, even on the lunge, its so ugly and hard to watch and she just makes herself sore doing it.

Her symptoms (and your horse’s symptoms) do sound a lot like kissing spine so if I were you I’d x-ray the back. That being said - I xrayed my mare’s back, the first vet said no kissing spine but the second vet said there definitely was, so I sent her for surgery hoping for a miracle, as many people have had total turnarounds after doing it. In my case, it did nothing. I may be wrong but I have now deduced that she has some sort of SI injury that I didn’t identify during the time when it would’ve been able to be rehabbed. And that the compensation she created within the body due to the discomfort from the SI injury caused the kissing spine, so even when we addressed that it didn’t fix anything.

Good luck, I understand the struggle, and how hard it is to accept that you might just never know. I haven’t done any further diagnostics or treatments since her surgery a year ago … but I am tempted. Even if I can’t fix her, I just want to KNOW!

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My list from a quick read of your post, not necessarily in this order - stifles (I know you said injected but with what - I felt the same nonsense with my horse, did an internal blister and worked the hell out of her twice a day for a couple of months, 2 springs in a row and haven’t had an issue since), Wobbler’s, kissing spine, PSSM (test for it), ulcers (especially since she’s been on NSAIDs over the years) and lower back issues, and any combination of the previous items.

FWIW, if she were mine and I could afford it, I’d ask for a neuro exam and spine/neck imaging at a university hospital to get the most potentially dire issues covered first.

And because I’ve seen some CRAZY turnarounds on a super cheap “this is all the owner can afford” type treatment - while you wait for your appointment at the hospital, grab a jug of aloe vera gel (I’ve seen better results with the gel than the juice) and start syringing 60cc orally every day. I don’t hold a lot of hope, but it’s cheap, and I have seen horses do remarkable turnarounds. One went from downright dangerous to biddable in under a week. It seems the aloe was enough to calm his guts from all the years of NSAIDs he’d received due to a (known) condition.

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Sacroiliac. Your post is the dictionary definition. Find a lameness specialist. Injecting it may or may not help at this point but if the vet thinks that may be the issue it is worth a try. Shockwave also helps some horses. Don’t call the “no judge would pull you” vet again! Who would say that? So sorry your lovely mare is unwell, you are a good mom!

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The bunny hop progression is typical of SI. At least I would start by imaging the whole spine and pelvis to the extent possible. It could also be one of the PSSM variants but those are harder to diagnose and the protocol is a work in progress and doesn’t always work anyway. And so it is much easier to at least rule out some of the questions with the spine. When I read a lot of not right but not lame, and you’ve already done EPM, Lyme, other testing, and looked at the legs anyway, the next place to go is axial skeleton.

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Sounds vaguely like my KS horse, that I suspect is actually an SI issue. FWIW I think this all started as a hoof problem + potential race gate injury, and now has spiraled from there.

He was a CUTE little mover when I got him at 3, but has deteriorated over the years. He’s one that PSSM might be a factor, but I have radiographs of his KS and the bodyworker swears it’s his SI that’s bothering him now.

I’d take your horse to a clinic and X-ray her spine and neck, and maybe try SI injections if they suspect anything there. SI issues are tough to diagnose, so sometimes people inject to see if there’s any response vs trying to image.

Thank you! Her back has never been x-rayed. Always something I had brought up to the vets throughout the years, but they never pursued it. I should have trusted myself and found a vet willing to take pictures of her back. It will be one of my next steps :slight_smile:

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She has never been tested for PSSM1 or 2. I worked with a nutritionist, with vet approval, to develop a PSSM safe diet for her years ago when she was at the height of her issues, just to be on the safe side. You are correct though, I should actually have her tested and work with a specialist on the matter depending on the results! Thank you!

Wow, they do sound so similar!! I am so sorry the surgery didn’t correct your horse’s KS. I’m definitely going to have her back x-rayed. I’ve always had the feeling some SI things were happening as well. I’ll check out your post as well. Thank you so much!

Thank you! I’ve never heard of the aloe vera gel treatment, how interesting! I am working on contacting a specialized vet today to make an appointment to bring her to his clinic for further examination/testing/diagnostic work. But, will definitely do the aloe vera gel as well-if it’s going to help keep her comfy without spending a ton of money, why not!? Thank you so much!

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Thank you-I have always felt it stemmed from her SI. Mentioned that to every vet who saw her. I spent the evening researching specialist in my area and am speaking with one today regarding bringing her to his clinic for evaluation. I couldn’t believe I dropped $400 two days ago for that vet to flex her and then say that before leaving! I’ve heard great things about shockwave, just the price-eek! Certainly may be something I have to try to budget for, just to see…thank you so much :slight_smile:

Thank you @IPEsq @fivestrideline. I’m pursuing taking her to a specialist to rule out KS and/or SI. Everyone has confirmed my feelings and thoughts have been spot on all these years. I just need to find the right vet to take the next step! Thank you! :slight_smile:

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I’m still curious what the diet is. I just see too many PSSM1 horses put on a low NSC diet, but don’t get fat added in. Or maybe 1/2c worth of oil (or eqiuvalent) when they need closer to 2c (for a 1000lb horse, equivalent of 1lb fat per 1000lb)

The bunny hopping is very typical of PSSM2/MIM horses as well. And of course, other things that can be hard to track down

Are her feet up to par? it’s amazing how many horses I’ve seen with NPA where the vet said they’re fine, no need to xray even :frowning:

@JB She is on Poulin Senior E-TEC Low Carb feed :slight_smile:

14.0
Protein
10.0
Fat
20.0
Fiber
10.8
Starch
4.3
Sugar

She does get 1/2 a cup of oil morning and night. Maybe she needs more? She does not have the best feet (long toe, underrun heels). She gets trimmed every 4 weeks. I’ll have the next vet take a closer look at her feet ensure all angles are good. Last vet said they were fine (but, I was not thoroughly impressed with last vet).

How many pounds of that? 10.8% starch might be too much for her.

And yes she might need double that amount of oil. But, LTLH feet cause all kinds of body issues.

Can you post some pictures of her feet?
Good Hoof Photos - How to take Good Hoof Photos

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@JB 3 pounds AM and PM (real, accurate pounds, not estimated) Thank you so much for your insight! I certainly can snag photos of her feet soon.

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It sounds like you’ve found a specialist that you have high hopes for.

If possible, I would not hesitate to haul her to a veterinary teaching hospital that has all the imaging and diagnostics on site. In the end it gives you access to a lot of smart people and it’s probably cheaper than multiple farm calls for a weird and complicated problem.

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