Horse diet - calories from hay vs. pasture - STRAW??

[Pocket_Pony]

I need to put a horse on a diet. Before we moved I had a scale and weighed every bit of hay that each horse got, but the scale broke right as we were moving and I hadn’t replaced it (just bought one yesterday).

I talked to the vet yesterday and asked her if I should cut back on hay or cut back on grazing time. She suggested to cut back on hay because fresh grass has more nutrition than hay and plus they get to move about when grazing. Of course I can’t argue with that! But I’m wondering how much “caloric replacement” grass has for hay.

How many pounds of grass (or calories from grass) can a horse eat in an hour? I know . . . “it depends.” But there’s got to be a range that I could work with to at least start somewhere.

Let’s say I want horse to have 15-20 lb of hay/day (he’s an easy keeper). If he’s out for 8 hours, does that count for 5 lb? More? Less?

When he eats hay he does eat from a hay net.

He gets no grain, only hay pellets (in addition to his hay) at night to mix his supplements (but I will be cutting back on the pellets).

Considering my work/riding (my other horse) schedule, my options are:

1. paddock most of the time - grazing 3 hours before bed
2. paddock breakfast - grazing for 7 hours - paddock at night
3. paddock breakfast - grazing for 10 hours - paddock at night

This horse is retired (so no forced exercise) and an easy keeper.

[jherold]

Possibly check for metabolic issues, ie insulin resistance and/or cushings? I’ve found that if I limit grazing time, they just keep their heads down and eat constantly. If they are out constantly, the graze a little, sleep a little, hang out in the run in etc. so they are probably consuming the same amount of calories than if I restricted them. Keep the grazing time the same but add a grazing muzzle?

[whbar158]

Yup was thinking grazing muzzle. Good way to reduce intake without changing too much else!

[jawa]

Grazing muzzle or really short grass in the pasture/paddock.

I’ve seen horses that were in the dry lot get turned out to graze for an hour HOOVER their grass. HUGE mouthful after mouthful. If you watch horses that have unlimited access to pasture they moderate themselves.

[JB]

assuming decent enough pasture, and free choice, a horse will eat about 4lb of grass per hour. That’s about 1lb of “hay”. Of course the dry matter content varies by time of year and the rainfall.

The fewer hours they are on grass, the more they often consume per hour because they spend more time grazing over that time out, than they might otherwise if they’ve been out all day already.

I would muzzle on grass before reducing turnout time.

Without knowing the current turnout time, I wouldn’t change the time out, just muzzle while out.

He might actually do better if he’s out for longer, but muzzled, than having access to more hay. You’ll just have to see

[Pocket_Pony]

[QUOTE=JB;8272752]
assuming decent enough pasture, and free choice, a horse will eat about 4lb of grass per hour. That’s about 1lb of “hay”. Of course the dry matter content varies by time of year and the rainfall.

The fewer hours they are on grass, the more they often consume per hour because they spend more time grazing over that time out, than they might otherwise if they’ve been out all day already.

I would muzzle on grass before reducing turnout time.

Without knowing the current turnout time, I wouldn’t change the time out, just muzzle while out.

He might actually do better if he’s out for longer, but muzzled, than having access to more hay. You’ll just have to see[/QUOTE]

JB, thank you - that’s the kind of information I was looking for. In order to formulate a new plan, I need to have some idea of numbers, even if it isn’t 100% accurate for my pasture. Does 1 hour of grazing = 1 lb or 10 lb of hay? That was my question, so your answer helps a lot.

I went out and got a grazing muzzle last night but it is too small so I need to get another one. Waiting for my scale to arrive so I can get everybody back on track!

[Winding_Down]

I find that horses consume hay at vastly varied speeds - When stalled, I have one horse who would eat a bale a day and another who eats less than a 1/4 bale. They are in about 9 hours per day during the summer and each horse gets about 1/3 bale of hay (which is about 15-20 lbs)

So I assume that the rate of grazing is similar. First horse above wears a muzzle in turnout - he turns into a blubber ball if allowed to consume at his chosen rate.

Comparing grass to hay in terms of pounds is wildly inaccurate. Grass has a very large percentage of water and the drying process not only removes that water, it also compromises some of the vitamin/mineral content. The age of the hay does as well.

Also the content of hay may be quite different from the grass your horse has available. Few of us turn our horses out in pastures that have grass of the quality of our hay (I do not have pastures of timothy, orchard grass, and alfalfa).

[Pocket_Pony]

Here’s a somewhat related question (I did a search but didn’t find my answer).

Can horses eat straw? For the piggy pig who just needs some fiber/filler in his diet so that he doesn’t feel like he goes without and his hay net lasts longer, could I put half straw, half hay in it? So this would be just overnight, maybe 3 lb of straw or so… Are there any dietary or metabolic issues with straw?

[BilyandJack]

[QUOTE=Pocket Pony;8274105]
Here’s a somewhat related question (I did a search but didn’t find my answer).

Can horses eat straw? For the piggy pig who just needs some fiber/filler in his diet so that he doesn’t feel like he goes without and his hay net lasts longer, could I put half straw, half hay in it? So this would be just overnight, maybe 3 lb of straw or so… Are there any dietary or metabolic issues with straw?[/QUOTE]

I was always told horses can’t eat straw. Something to do with impaction colic I believe? I am no expert though. I would find some lower quality first cut grass hay and use that as a filler.

[JB]

I wouldn’t ever use straw as a forage replacement unless there just wasn’t any hay.

It can be really high in sugar for one, and it’s not very nutritious.

[Flash44]

Ditto. Just get some hay that went a little late to cut, so it’s on the mature stemmy side rather than leafy side. As long as it’s not dusty, moldy etc, it should be OK to use.

[jawa]

I just read a KER article speaking to the calories that can be used from hay. It specifically spoke to the leafy vs stemy hays. A stemy hay has more lignin in it, so the calories are not easily digestible by the horse. A leafy hay has less lignin, so has more calories available. So lb for lb leafy hay can have more calories than stemy hay.

Late cut hay can be great as a gut mover and give them something to do. If your horse will eat soaked hay, that can be a great way to give them forage without the calories.

I have always had “hard keepers”. I actually think that the fatties are harder to manage most of the time.

[jawa]

I just read a KER article speaking to the calories that can be used from hay. It specifically spoke to the leafy vs stemy hays. A stemy hay has more lignin in it, so the calories are not easily digestible by the horse. A leafy hay has less lignin, so has more calories available. So lb for lb leafy hay can have more calories than stemy hay.

Late cut hay can be great as a gut mover and give them something to do. If your horse will eat soaked hay, that can be a great way to give them forage without the calories.

I have always had “hard keepers”. I actually think that the fatties are harder to manage most of the time.

[enjoytheride]

What about something like Oat Hay?

[saultgirl]

[QUOTE=jawa;8274629]
I just read a KER article speaking to the calories that can be used from hay. It specifically spoke to the leafy vs stemy hays. A stemy hay has more lignin in it, so the calories are not easily digestible by the horse. A leafy hay has less lignin, so has more calories available. So lb for lb leafy hay can have more calories than stemy hay.

Late cut hay can be great as a gut mover and give them something to do. If your horse will eat soaked hay, that can be a great way to give them forage without the calories.

I have always had “hard keepers”. I actually think that the fatties are harder to manage most of the time.[/QUOTE]

Good to hear about the overly mature hay. I have 2 fatties here and we only have about 2/3 of our hay in the barn now – questionable weather has kept us from cutting. So the rest of the hay we get in will probably be the most “over-mature” hay that I’ve ever fed, and I was wondering if it would be less digestible for that reason.

Re: straw — some horses will eat it just like hay. I tried bedding the turnout shelter with straw and my horses ate it all, while giving me dirty looks about the poor quality of the “hay” I was giving them! And I think I paid $7 per bale for that straw!!

[merrygoround]

[QUOTE=saultgirl;8275049]

Re: straw — some horses will eat it just like hay. I tried bedding the turnout shelter with straw and my horses ate it all, while giving me dirty looks about the poor quality of the “hay” I was giving them! And I think I paid $7 per bale for that straw!![/QUOTE]

Sorry that last par. made me laugh!

We too got really late cut hay due to weather. BO is worrying over the tooth challenged oldster if we have another winter like last. The rest could survive on straw, not really, but close.

[Katy_Watts]

[QUOTE=enjoytheride;8274761]
What about something like Oat Hay?[/QUOTE]

The data from the Dairy One database shows that oat hay can be one of the highest in sugar of any forage. Definitely get it tested for NSC before feeding as filler. Some is filler, some is Founder Fodder.

I would also test straw before feeding for filler. I have heard that in Germany, it is assumed that dressage horses will eat their bedding to keep busy when they are fed high grain diets to stay in hard work. Adapt slowly, as it requires a good population of fiber fermenting bacteria to keep it moving through properly. I prefer Bermuda or other C4 type hays for chew time. Native prairie hay from eastern Kansas is a reliable low sugar filler hay.

[merrygoround]

Than you Katy.

[Trails]

I bed on wheat straw and I see the odd horse eating a bit of it but they don’t really consume very much at all. If I bed on oat straw then they would munch away. I know of some people who feed a bit of straw as a filler and have had no problems what so ever.

[Pocket_Pony]

Thanks for the feedback. I wouldn’t be replacing hay with straw, and I wouldn’t expect the straw to provide much in the way of nutrition - just some filler to put in the hay net to keep him busy.

I found this article/website and thought it was interesting.

https://uckeleequine.wordpress.com/

It seems like I live in The Land of Fabulous Hay. Where I moved from I was in The Land of Mediocre Hay and that was actually fine by me. Most of what I’ve seen/heard of around here is orchard grass (what I feed). Maybe there’s a little bit of timothy. Haven’t heard of any oat hay but that’s doesn’t necessarily mean that it isn’t around (and I think it has too much sugar?).

How do you find someone who sells mediocre hay when everyone would want to tell you they have awesome hay?