Horse Dislikes Bits?

[Rusty15]

A bit of background so we start off straight. This particular horse of mine came to me well trained, has had an overall pretty easy, stress free life. He has only been ridden by experienced riders with quiet, soft hands. He is very calm and honest and when he IS nervous it’s easy to tell. He’s always been up to date on dental work (from a DENTIST not just a vet) and has been gone over thoroughly by my vet and chiro.

He has no real reason to do what he does. While he never opens his mouth, tosses his head, or tries to evade the bit in any way, he chews on it and if he’s not chewing on it he likes to lean on it. Not so much at the trot or canter, but walking or standing he just chews and chews from the moment I put it in his mouth. I’ve tried him in a sweet iron twisted dogbone D ring, Single jointed full cheek, single jointed copper gentle guide, and a Myler low port eggbutt. The myler has a roller so he can roll that around but all the others bear many teeth marks.

In addition to his chewing, he never wants to open his mouth for a bit. After messing around with his tongue for a minute he’ll open it though. He also seems to move out more willingly when I ride him in a halter. He’s always been on the lazy side but I rode him in a rope halter a few times and maybe it was just a coincidence but he seemed less lazy, more willing to move out. I really don’t understand the correlation. He is a mounted shooting horse so I ride him one handed much of the time but I am trying to re-condition him and want him to work round through his whole body, so ride 2 handed for that. I’m just not sure about this guy! I did put a hackamore I had on him which I could certainly control him in (to stop all you have to do is think it lol. He requires 0 rein) but it seemed to make him a bit stiff, as I know hackamores can do. I’ll try it some more and see how it goes, but otherwise, I’m not sure what I should do. Some have recommended chain mouth bits, sidepulls (the hack I have is a TEENY step above a sidepull), etc. Advice?

[Bluey]

Just curious, have you tried rubber or nylon mouth bits, thinner or thicker mouthpieces, hanging the bit lower or higher, putting a bit of honey and/or a pinch of salt on the mouthpiece?

I have seen horses that chew the bit as a nervous habit, like cribbing, weaving and such, every chance they get.
The riders seemed to ignore it.
It that is what it is, trying to keep a horse from it may cause that habit to surface as a different one, like sucking on the tongue all the time.

Could you, for now, manage this by not standing there, work him and then take the bit off to cool off or stand around?

As far as accepting the bit itself, that that may be a different training problem from chewing the bit, that you could work on that in itself.

[Lilykoi]

This was my experience with my little QH mare. She was 4 when I bought, and I tried her in Western tack, even though I was going to ride English. I rode her without contact (her bit was a single wire snaffle) and she was great, I bought her.
Transitioning her into an English bit that I could take up contact was a challenge.
I also later found out her tongue had been cut from having her head tied back.
I tried a rubber bit and a KK training bit, neither to her liking. Lots of carrying her head sideways and shaking. Long story short, after talking to Myler I got her a 3 piece snaffle comfort mouth. Voila! perfect.
So don’t give up, you may have to try a lot of bits before you find one he likes. And Myler has great customer service too. I talked to one of the brothers several times.Oh, and I certainly recommend the comfort mouth

[Rusty15]

[QUOTE=Bluey;8251526]
Just curious, have you tried rubber or nylon mouth bits, thinner or thicker mouthpieces, hanging the bit lower or higher, putting a bit of honey and/or a pinch of salt on the mouthpiece?

I have seen horses that chew the bit as a nervous habit, like cribbing, weaving and such, every chance they get.
The riders seemed to ignore it.
It that is what it is, trying to keep a horse from it may cause that habit to surface as a different one, like sucking on the tongue all the time.

Could you, for now, manage this by not standing there, work him and then take the bit off to cool off or stand around?

As far as accepting the bit itself, that that may be a different training problem from chewing the bit, that you could work on that in itself.[/QUOTE

I haven’t tried the honey or rubber bits, but he has had a few different widths/shapes of mouthpieces. I have also tried adjusting it higher or lower, with no difference. I know it could be considered a nervous habit but he has NOTHING to be nervous about. I don’t keep him standing around for long periods, but while walking to/from the arena, adjusting his cinch, mounting, walking around to warm him up and cool him down, he still chews. He does it when I lunge him too.

[Rusty15]

[QUOTE=Lilykoi;8251549]
This was my experience with my little QH mare. She was 4 when I bought, and I tried her in Western tack, even though I was going to ride English. I rode her without contact (her bit was a single wire snaffle) and she was great, I bought her.
Transitioning her into an English bit that I could take up contact was a challenge.
I also later found out her tongue had been cut from having her head tied back.
I tried a rubber bit and a KK training bit, neither to her liking. Lots of carrying her head sideways and shaking. Long story short, after talking to Myler I got her a 3 piece snaffle comfort mouth. Voila! perfect.
So don’t give up, you may have to try a lot of bits before you find one he likes. And Myler has great customer service too. I talked to one of the brothers several times.Oh, and I certainly recommend the comfort mouth :)[/QUOTE]

This is the myler I currently have. Are we talking about the same one?

[Lilykoi]

Yes but mine is a loose ring. I don’t know if that makes a difference or not.

[Bluey]

You may reconsider your approach to teach him to work collected.

While it makes easier to have a horse that is responding to all your aids, a bit an important one, you can teach the same with minimum contact or even without contact.
That is the principle of bosals, you are into the horse’s mind with your seat and legs and balance and the bosal barely serves to tell the horse to pay attention, but doesn’t give it second by second help to understand what you want thru direct contact.
You do that thru many transitions, keeping the horse active with little exercises where he has to use himself.
You teach that on the ground first, then some use a fence at first when mounted.
The idea is to teach a horse to move over it’s center of gravity and move that and later the added weight of a rider smoothly and well balanced, where it can move any one way fluidly.

Now, some like the thick rawhide bosals, we have better luck with our “galloping hackamores”, a bosal made out of grass rope, that for many works great for what you are trying to teach.

You may try that, see if your horse’s mouth settles, once it learns to work in balance off your other aids, then adding any one bit may not be a reason to chew it, it being less active.
You already have a good start when you used only a halter and your horse was moving more freely.
Halters are a bit too noisy and not that precise, compared with a bit more snug and stiffer materials, so generally not as good to communicate with.

That won’t work if what your horse does is a stereotypy type habit by now, because while keeping him busy working will maybe keep his mouth still, once it has time to chew, chew he will, won’t address that.

[Rusty15]

[QUOTE=Bluey;8251619]
You may reconsider your approach to teach him to work collected.

While it makes easier to have a horse that is responding to all your aids, a bit an important one, you can teach the same with minimum contact or even without contact.
That is the principle of bosals, you are into the horse’s mind with your seat and legs and balance and the bosal barely serves to tell the horse to pay attention, but doesn’t give it second by second help to understand what you want thru direct contact.
You do that thru many transitions, keeping the horse active with little exercises where he has to use himself.
You teach that on the ground first, then some use a fence at first when mounted.
The idea is to teach a horse to move over it’s center of gravity and move that and later the added weight of a rider smoothly and well balanced, where it can move any one way fluidly.

Now, some like the thick rawhide bosals, we have better luck with our “galloping hackamores”, a bosal made out of grass rope, that for many works great for what you are trying to teach.

You may try that, see if your horse’s mouth settles, once it learns to work in balance off your other aids, then adding any one bit may not be a reason to chew it, it being less active.
You already have a good start when you used only a halter and your horse was moving more freely.
Halters are a bit too noisy and not that precise, compared with a bit more snug and stiffer materials, so generally not as good to communicate with.

That won’t work if what your horse does is a stereotypy type habit by now, because while keeping him busy working will maybe keep his mouth still, once it has time to chew, chew he will, won’t address that.[/QUOTE]

Ok, I see what you’re saying. It makes a lot of sense because this horse has KS and in order to get his back strong enough to ride at all, I had to do a LOT of groundwork. I prefer to lunge in a regular arena rather than a round pen and did a lot of focused work on the lunge with transitions and as much collection/extension as I could get. I did see a big transformation in that he started balancing himself MUCH better on transitions and using his rear end a bit more efficiently instead of dragging himself around with his front legs (which is his go-to). The bit thing has been an ongoing issue since I got him last year but he’s only been back in work again for a couple weeks and I’ve kind of been pre-occupied with the bit issues and slowly working him up to longer periods of trotting and then cantering that I haven’t done any “real” work to get the collection and refinement. I would be happy to try him in a Bosal as well. I really liked him in the halter except when he got a little strong or lost focus my steering wasn’t totally there. I could but kind of had to pull him around. If the Bosal’s pressure is a bit more direct and clear that would probably work perfectly.

[GotMyPony]

I had a QH mare who never liked bits; found out later that she has been born with a “wry/rye? nose” in which her mouth had been slightly deformed in the womb (wavy tooth line) and that may have been a factor.

Anyway, I switched to a Dr. Cook’s bitless bridle for her and it made a world of difference. Like Bluey, I didn’t feel like a halter alone was very precise in communicating, and the BB, with its ability to apply pressure to nose, poll and cheeks, did a better job for me.

The Dr. Cooks aren’t cheap (almost $100) so ideally you could find someone who has one you could borrow to try before buying. I recently lent mine to a friend who was having bit trouble (horse had really bad teeth). She kept mine awhile, it worked well, so she ordered one.

Good luck with whatever you try…

[poltroon]

You might try a solid mouthpiece. My horse hates anything with a joint. She likes her bits to be still.

She goes best in a Herm Sprenger Duo, though she does also chew through them eventually.

[Bluey]

[QUOTE=poltroon;8252832]
You might try a solid mouthpiece. My horse hates anything with a joint. She likes her bits to be still.

She goes best in a Herm Sprenger Duo, though she does also chew through them eventually.[/QUOTE]

Yes, I forgot to ask, have you tried some kind of plain grazing bit, or mullen mouth one?
Some horses like that better.

There is a very competitive ranch type show arena performance trainer that just tried a chain mouth piece on the advice of another trainer.
There are several kinds of those, don’t know which kind he tried, if bycicle chain, linked chain, how large or thin, if covered with something or other, but he seemed to think that the many small links permitted the mouthpiece to fit more comfortably than any one or a few rigid pieces, maybe?
That is one principle of the old native indian rope thru the mouth type bridles, they formed to the horse’s mouth.
He. like most of us, thought those were horrible bits, but he said that horse just loves it and when he tried on others, most also like them better than most he has tried, surprise.

I don’t know, have not tried any such, but maybe for some horse, under some conditions, that is one that works best?

The question with any bit, as per my old military instructor I first learned under, is that at any cost we need to utterly respect the horse’s mouth.
The smallest touch of the reins is all we are permitted, so as not to cause pain, so easy to do with a bit in a horse’s mouth.
Then, the old military bits he was familiar with were not all for uneducated horses or hands.

At times he even put a light string between bit and reins, making a rein loop there and you were to ride without breaking that string, even jumping a whole course or on a trail ride.

[Rusty15]

I do not currently have a mullen mouth bit so that is one that I’ve not tried.

[Rusty15]

[QUOTE=Rusty15;8252198]
Ok, I see what you’re saying. It makes a lot of sense because this horse has KS and in order to get his back strong enough to ride at all, I had to do a LOT of groundwork. I prefer to lunge in a regular arena rather than a round pen and did a lot of focused work on the lunge with transitions and as much collection/extension as I could get. I did see a big transformation in that he started balancing himself MUCH better on transitions and using his rear end a bit more efficiently instead of dragging himself around with his front legs (which is his go-to). The bit thing has been an ongoing issue since I got him last year but he’s only been back in work again for a couple weeks and I’ve kind of been pre-occupied with the bit issues and slowly working him up to longer periods of trotting and then cantering that I haven’t done any “real” work to get the collection and refinement. I would be happy to try him in a Bosal as well. I really liked him in the halter except when he got a little strong or lost focus my steering wasn’t totally there. I could but kind of had to pull him around. If the Bosal’s pressure is a bit more direct and clear that would probably work perfectly.[/QUOTE]

I’ve been researching bosals all day. My God there is a lot to know! And they’re expensive holy cow!

[Bluey]

[QUOTE=Rusty15;8253399]
I’ve been researching bosals all day. My God there is a lot to know! And they’re expensive holy cow![/QUOTE]

Yes, you would be better with a trainer that may have some for you to try and show you how to use them.

If not used correctly, like trying to keep contact with them, or out of timing with the horse’s way of moving, where it learns to brace against it because it could not do what was asked, then they quit working so lightly on them.
Some horses with ham fisted cowboys may even start running thru the hackamore/bosal in frustration.

Here are some soft, light basic training type loping hackamores, the kind many cutting horse trainers start and train colts with and go back regularly to train more:

http://www.halfcircleranch.com/store/pc/viewCategories.asp?idCategory=55

I assume you know how to use one, since you said you did ride just with the halter and those are even better than halters at communicating.

For most people and horses, snaffles for training where you have to take contact more than not is really best.
If your horse doesn’t like snaffles, well, then you are where you are now, scratching your head.

Have you worked on bit acceptance yet and how is that coming along?
I am not sure we are getting the real picture here of what all is going on, a downfall of internet discussions, missing parts that could be key information.
That is why someone on the spot is infinitely better than all our guesses here, where we may be barking up the wrong tree.

[Rusty15]

Unfortunately I don’t have access to any trainers. At this point I’m completely on my own I have taken lessons for over 15 years but rode English most of life (or rode english in a western saddle). So all the horses were used to always riding w/ contact. As far as trying to get him to accept the bit I’ve been doing what I always do, trying to ride him up into the bridle and keeping a soft contact and he doesn’t grab the bit or throw his head or evade it in any way, he just kind of tries to ignore me. When I put the halter on (tied similarly to those loping hacks you posted) I just rode pretty much how I would with a bit, minus trying to keep a constant contact. I do now have a sidepull to try before I shell out for a bosal.

[Rusty15]

Tried the sidepull…he went wonderfully in it! Steering and control was just as good as in a bit (despite him being a little forward from having a few days off.) I think we’ll stick with this for the time being and see how it goes.

[Bluey]

Whatever works is the right thing, at that time.

Once you both are on the same page for a while, you can again try other, see how that goes.

A really well trained horse should go with whatever you get on it, although they will have preferences.

We mostly ride our old horses with our rope nose hackamore, because it seems to be clearly the preferred getup for most of them.
We also use bits here and there and always when someone else is riding one of our horses, as not everyone has the touch it takes to use those hackamores.

We need to always remember to also keep training ourselves all along.
It is not always the horse or our tools when there are resistances.

[costco_muffins]

Chiming in to say that my green hunter hates bits. We got him to finally accept one and be relatively less irritated by putting him in a sidepull for a few months to break the habit of grinding his teeth (he was super and relaxed with the sidepull). Then we added a bit on a headstall but didn’t attach reins to this, just let it sit in his mouth while still riding off the sidepull. Did that for another few months, and now are able to ride off a bit again. The bit he likes is a super soft nathe with loose rings and bit tape.

FWIW, he was previously in a full cheek rubber single jointed snaffle, a french link D, a rubber mullen loose ring, a KK loose ring, and a myler combination on both the snaffle and a dropped ring and didn’t like any of them.

[Rusty15]

[QUOTE=Bluey;8261138]
Whatever works is the right thing, at that time.

Once you both are on the same page for a while, you can again try other, see how that goes.

A really well trained horse should go with whatever you get on it, although they will have preferences.

We mostly ride our old horses with our rope nose hackamore, because it seems to be clearly the preferred getup for most of them.
We also use bits here and there and always when someone else is riding one of our horses, as not everyone has the touch it takes to use those hackamores.

We need to always remember to also keep training ourselves all along.
It is not always the horse or our tools when there are resistances.[/QUOTE]

That is true. While he “can” be ridden in a bit, he seems happier without one and since my discipline does not require bits to compete, I’m more than happy to work with what he likes best as he works hard for me and really is a very good horse.