Horse drags hind toe in the middle of a trot stride

[mydogs]

I recorded my ride in slow motion today because something just has not felt 100% with my horse lately. It is very very subtle that people on the ground don’t notice it but I can feel something different while riding.

I’m not brave enough to post my ride today for the world to see, so I took screenshots of one trot stride. It is in between the 2nd and 3rd photo of when he drags his toe. The last photo shows when he drags his toe.

My horse isn’t dragging his toe completely in the stride but looks as though it is in the middle of the stride. If I didn’t watch this in slow motion, I wouldn’t have been able to easily notice this. When photos are taken, I only see the “pretty” phase of the trot, which shows him lifting his leg/hoof. He tracks up in the trot and over tracks in the walk. Overall, he is a very nice moving horse.

I did have an issue with him going forward from what felt like a lack of energy. He is older, so many potential causes for the lack of energy, still working through some changes. Of course, could be joint issues due to his age as well. He does with both legs in both directions.

Has anyone seen this before? Any ideas on the cause?

It is the weekend so won’t hear from the vet until next week. Planning on talking to farrier next week as well. Scheduling a chiro visit too.

[Bluey]

Can you see that in the tracks he leaves behind, where the hoof drags in the stride and how deep and for how long?
Try on a smooth stretch and take pictures, so you can show to your vet.

A vet exam is always a good idea when we think we have something going on.

Good luck finding what is going on and if it is relevant to his health.

[2tempe]

Google toe dragging if you haven’t already. A thousand reasons. Maybe could get some idea w/ video. but sure cant tell anything form the still shots. You are starting in the right place, check saddle fit also.

[JB]

My first impression is that, because of where his hind foot is landing in relation to where the front one has just left, is that he’s not working. He’s pulling himself along. Many horses, especially in footing like that, will do a “bounce” of the foot because they can’t be bothered to fully lift and bring the leg forward.

Even in the pic where he’s got the front and hind legs evenly split (so in an A frame), you can see the hind foot isn’t going to land even up to where the front is leaving.

So yeah, video would help a lot

[mydogs]

I’ll see if I can crop the video so I’m not in it

it it doesn’t look like it but he actually does track up, even when he is dragging his toe. I asked him to go a bit more forward in the trot and he still was dragging his toes. I found a video from a show where he felt really great and it was still happening.

I noticed when going over a single ground pole he won’t pick up his hind feet. If I made the poles wider, he will pick his feet up.

saddle fit is actually scheduled for this week.

[mydogs]

@JB

My first impression is that, because of where his hind foot is landing in relation to where the front one has just left, is that he’s not working. He’s pulling himself along. Many horses, especially in footing like that, will do a “bounce” of the foot because they can’t be bothered to fully lift and bring the leg forward.

Can you explain what you mean by the footing? That is actually something I pondered. He doesn’t like deep, sand footing. It’s the only time he is blantly disobedient because he doesn’t like it.

[Scribbler]

You could always make another video just showing bottom half of horse. Or why not video him on the longe so we can see whole body working?

Deep footing is much harder to work in. Think of trying to run on the dry part of a beach! If he has stifle issues I bet it’s hard to pick up his feet.

[DJohn]

Ya, sorry OP we need video. You don’t have to be on him, just take a longe video of w/t/c/.

[JB]

@mydogs

Can you explain what you mean by the footing? That is actually something I pondered. He doesn’t like deep, sand footing. It’s the only time he is blantly disobedient because he doesn’t like it.

Many horses who don’t “like” deeper footing are sore. It’s not just that it’s harder to move in general, but it just makes any soreness more pronounced. The softer the footing, the more soft tissue injuries or weaknesses are aggravated. So you have to re-think “he doesn’t like it”.

If it’s just physically harder, then you have to back off the work to a level he can handle correctly, and work up slowly.

But don’t discount that it’s bringing to light an injury of some sort.

[kiwichick]

Agree he doesnt appear to be engaged from behind.
Also that toes looks long to me, its very hard to tell, but see if you can get your farrier to increase his breakover.

[tikihorse2]

My old guy’s trot was very similar to what you describe when his stifle issues started. He’d still track up, but his toe dragged. It was visible in the arena footing, if you looked carefully. He also had tremendous difficulty picking up his hind feet over ground poles.

What about your horse’s canter? Is he having difficulty in one direction, or swapping leads? That was one of the first signs with my horse.

Note: I’m not saying it’s definitely stifles in your horse, just wondering if it might be, based on what you’ve said. I’m not a vet!

[mydogs]

@tikihorse2

What about your horse’s canter? Is he having difficulty in one direction, or swapping leads? That was one of the first signs with my horse.

No lead swapping in the canter. To the right he tends to break into the trot from the canter and once I saw a video of what looked like his right hind didn’t look quite right. Like he was getting stuck with his right hind. Left canter tends to be easier.

I’ve been examining a ton of videos over the last few months and I can see the progression of the toes dragging. Starting from one toe to now both. A few of these were at shows where he was most certainly excited and moving forward on his own.

I’ll be talking to the vet about getting hocks or stifles injected. After talking it over with my trainer (didn’t expect to see her today), we are thinking hocks based on a few other changes we have been seeing.

[JB]

@mydogs

No lead swapping in the canter. To the right he tends to break into the trot from the canter and once I saw a video of what looked like his right hind didn’t look quite right. Like he was getting stuck with his right hind. Left canter tends to be easier.

I’ve been examining a ton of videos over the last few months and I can see the progression of the toes dragging. Starting from one toe to now both. A few of these were at shows where he was most certainly excited and moving forward on his own.

Is there a particular reason you won’t show us any videos? Trust me, nobody is going to judge your riding, though it may be critiqued if it appear to be playing into how the horse is using himself.

I’ll be talking to the vet about getting hocks or stifles injected.

And you don’t have a diagnosis, so you can’t have a treatment plan yet. Joint injections are certainly not where I’d be jumping to at at this point.

There are way too many things that haven’t been addressed - hoof balance, saddle fit, rider error, PSSM, and yes, general age-related arthritis.

After talking it over with my trainer (didn’t expect to see her today), we are thinking hocks based on a few other changes we have been seeing.

Your trainer isn’t a vet

[mydogs]

@JB

Is there a particular reason you won’t show us any videos? Trust me, nobody is going to judge your riding, though it may be critiqued if it appear to be playing into how the horse is using himself.

Actually, yes. Just from how I’ve seen previous threads go in the past, I try to limit how much personal information about my situation is provided, as it makes me feel uncomfortable to wonder what kind of responses I would receive. I’m not looking for COTH to diagnose my horse, but to get ideas from others experiences so I can make sure to bring it up with my vet so I cover all potential bases.

And you don’t have a diagnosis, so you can’t have a treatment plan yet. Joint injections are certainly not where I’d be jumping to at at this point.

A diagnostic procedure would be discussed with the vet.

There are way too many things that haven’t been addressed - hoof balance, saddle fit, rider error, PSSM, and yes, general age-related arthritis.

Hoof balance and saddle fit are planned to be assessed. Rider error was considered but the issue was persistent with other, more advanced riders.

Your trainer isn’t a vet

Thinking of a potential cause is not claiming it is the actual issue. But an idea of where we plan to start the conversation with my vet.

[beau159]

@mydogs

I’ll be talking to the vet about getting hocks or stifles injected. After talking it over with my trainer (didn’t expect to see her today), we are thinking hocks based on a few other changes we have been seeing.

Of course, your first set is to take the horse to a GOOD lameness vet. My first hunch when I see a horse dragging a toe is usually stifles are sore, but that is not always the case.

If it is stifles, in my experience, injections don’t do much. Regular correct exercise helps strengthen them and get them to function better.

Of course, do not inject unless you have a reason to inject. (flexions, x-rays, etc)

And toe dragging could just be a lazy horse… My Shotgun certainly drags his back feet and there’s not a thing wrong with him … except he just lacks energy sometimes!

But it never hurts to take them to the vet and have a good look over.

[JB]

@mydogs

Actually, yes. Just from how I’ve seen previous threads go in the past, I try to limit how much personal information about my situation is provided, as it makes me feel uncomfortable to wonder what kind of responses I would receive. I’m not looking for COTH to diagnose my horse, but to get ideas from others experiences so I can make sure to bring it up with my vet so I cover all potential bases.

Trust me, I get it I think without video you’re just going to get all sorts of ideas which, I know, is the point, though more information is always useful

Hoof balance and saddle fit are planned to be assessed.

Good - just know that most vets don’t know what they don’t know about feet, and there are a lot of really bad to mediocre saddle fitters out there

Rider error was considered but the issue was persistent with other, more advanced riders.

That’s a useful data point, though hard for us to quantify since we don’t know even your level of riding, but it’s still good info. Your saddle, or theirs? Another good data point would be a different saddle - perhaps wider, with a slightly thicker pad, as an example.

Thinking of a potential cause is not claiming it is the actual issue. But an idea of where we plan to start the conversation with my vet.

Just trying to make sure you don’t start with “pretty sure it’s the hocks”, because too many vets just love to “see” sore hocks and inject and move on, without bothering to look at other things that are just causing sore hocks. I hope you find a relatively easy fix

[Libby2563]

@JB

Just trying to make sure you don’t start with “pretty sure it’s the hocks”, because too many vets just love to “see” sore hocks and inject and move on, without bothering to look at other things that are just causing sore hocks. I hope you find a relatively easy fix

This. Just one other thing to keep in mind since I don’t think anyone else said it yet: toe drag can also be a sign of hind suspensory issues. Also, my understanding is that when vets block the hock, the proximal suspensory area may end up blocked as well. I would really recommend a very good lameness vet, not just someone who will inject the hocks and be done with it like JB said. It may work for a while, and then the problem returns and you realize there is an unaddressed suspensory issue (or stifles, or whatever–just an example and something to keep in mind).

Kudos to you for noticing the subtle change in your horse and looking into it. Hope it is just something minor!

[kiwichick]

wearing the hind toes square was a huge red flag with one of mine that had a neck injury. He also couldnt back up properly either.
So does he do it in the paddock too?