horse "facts" in fiction

[ecileh]

I am in the middle of a novel set in Britain during the Roman invasion. It is the second book in a series and, until very recently, has been pretty spot on with all the horse-stuff…which is actually the only reason I am asking this question. Pretty sure I know the answer, but I know I don’t know everything so…

In a conversation between two Roman cavalry officers who were comparing the types of horses their units kept, one said that the Gaulish cavalry liked to have mares because “they can urinate at a full gallop in battle”.

Every single mare I have ever known–including the two I own–makes a huge production out of peeing. Has anyone ever encountered a mare that could/would do it while moving at all–let alone at a gallop? The books seem to be pretty meticulously researched and, like, I said, up until this nugget, were pretty accurate with horse stuff.

[EventIz]

My mare makes a huge deal out of it and if she is not set just right she has to go forward a few steps and get set up again.

[SummerRose]

All of the mares I’ve ridden have had to stop and “pose” to urinate but the book’s premise isn’t outside of the realm of possibility.

Throughout history, and even now where animals are really used as tools/literal beasts of burden, they’re sometimes forced to do things that they wouldn’t naturally do. I could see it being very hard to coerce a stallion/gelding to urinate while moving due to their anatomy but a mare? With strong enough application of spurs and/or whip? It’s conceivable. Goodness knows mares in heat are physically capable of urinating while on the move. (And that isn’t a dig at mares. I get along great with mares and generally prefer them over geldings.)

I’ve never heard that mares had ever been trained that way but it’s possible.

[Alex_and_Bodie_s_Mom]

It’s also possible that this is something the Romans did actually say about the Gauls (i.e., the author read it in Roman accounts), but didn’t have any basis in fact. Something they might have made up, or might have been told erroneously.

I could kind of see a Gaul telling this to a Roman, then going back to his friends and having a good laugh about it.

[Scribbler]

I have seen a friend’s photo of her aged OTTB mare in heat letting go a stream of pee in full canter/gallop in a field. I haven’t seen this in person. Friend never posted the picture on social media because she thought it was a bit too gross!

In general I find my mare needs to be in a nice soft safe space and there is much theatrics about stretching and tail lifting and groaning in pleasure, but on long back country trail rides she will pee under saddle very efficiently. But only standing still

It is also possible that this is genuine Roman folklore about mares, not necessarily true, but true to what Romans believed, or perhaps the author of the novel found this factoid in old Latin writings. Both the Ancient Greeks and Romans were very solid on some topics (philosophy for Greeks, aqueducts for Romans, etc) but their take on natural history, zoology, botany, human medicine was somewhat hit and miss. Real facts alongside folklore and myth

[goodhors]

I have seen moving mares pee from fright. Someone after them who intends to hurt them and they know it. Otherwise, only in season mares squirting while moving.

I think forcing movement during peeing could cause muscle problems. Certainly not allowing the bladder to fully empty, causing later problems to horse.

Perhaps the battle mares were terrified charging the enemies, peed from fear, but could not turn to run away? Lots of noise, insults, posturing ahead of actual fighting during ancient battle reports. That could be quite scary to new battle mounts that have not fought before.

Horses are not “made” to urinate in motion. None do that on their own time, so i would call it uncommon, not something that happened often.

What an odd detail to come thru history!

[Bluey]

Maybe he was being sarcastic, if he ever was riding or by a mare in heat that was playing up to some nearby male, urinating all over herself and wringing her tail, everyone around getting a shower.
Been there a couple times, the rider had to distance the mare from the group.

Is one reason cowboys would not ride mares in company, other than their own ranch mares, alone, at home, to prove them physically and mentally before breeding them.
Otherwise, they rode geldings and remudas when working cattle were generally all males.

That could be one explanation for those words?

[ThreeFigs]

I witnessed a friend’s mare urinating while practicing for a speed event. Yes, they can urinate while running. I’m sure they’d rather not…

[Janet]

There was a best seller, set in the middle ages, that described a particular horse as chestnut, with black legs and tail. Clear ignorance.

[HPFarmette]

@ecileh

I am in the middle of a novel set in Britain during the Roman invasion. It is the second book in a series and, until very recently, has been pretty spot on with all the horse-stuff…which is actually the only reason I am asking this question. Pretty sure I know the answer, but I know I don’t know everything so…

In a conversation between two Roman cavalry officers who were comparing the types of horses their units kept, one said that the Gaulish cavalry liked to have mares because “they can urinate at a full gallop in battle”.

Every single mare I have ever known–including the two I own–makes a huge production out of peeing. Has anyone ever encountered a mare that could/would do it while moving at all–let alone at a gallop? The books seem to be pretty meticulously researched and, like, I said, up until this nugget, were pretty accurate with horse stuff.

What is the book please. I love historical fiction.

[RedHorses]

Is it Manda Scott’s Boudicca series? @HPFarmette if it isn’t you might like this series. Start with Dreaming The Eagle.

[JustTheTicket]

Maybe? But I think most animals try really hard not to pee on themselves and most (male or female) will stop moving to do so, so that’s a weird particular trait to look for in a cavalry mount. Like “eh, she’s not super brave or anything, but she’ll pee at a full gallop!”

[ecileh]

@RedHorses

Is it Manda Scott’s Boudicca series? @HPFarmette if it isn’t you might like this series. Start with Dreaming The Eagle.

Yes! That’s the one.

[Impractical_Horsewoman]

I ride a mare who strongly prefers to return to her stall after I ride her, so she can pee in her preferred location.

I must confess to not being a big consumer of fantasy books but I looked up Manda Scott, and apparently she’s a former veterinary surgeon.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manda_Scott

So she must know what she’s talking about, although the fantasy genre (with many major exceptions, like The Scorpio Races, which I really enjoyed) is notorious for inaccuracies when written by people without firsthand equestrian knowledge!

[RedHorses]

@ecileh

Yes! That’s the one.

I love that series! I’ve read it several times.

[tabula_rashah]

I had a mare in from a rescue that had a horrible past with a lot of abuse. She would urinate when she got really stressed, even while moving.

On another but similar note, I’m in a FB discussion group that revolves around works of a particular author. Somehow the subject of horses came up and I mentioned my horses and what I do with them. The author commented and said she has several horse “scenes” in her upcoming novel and could she message me with questions about accuracy and such. :):)

[Xanthoria]

Dragging this thread up to add this bit from Lonesome Dove by Larry McMurtry, who one would think would know…

I can’t find the page now, but he describes a young cowhand riding along who is crying so much the cantle of his saddle gets wet. Not the pommel. The cantle.

ETA: found the page (381) and quote:

‘Then his eyes fell on Newt, who was feeling guilty enough. “You was sent to watch her,” Jake said. “I’d say you did a hell of a poor job.”
Newt didn’t reply. It was true–he had, and it made him feel worse that Jake was the one to say it. he mounted his night hose and rode quickly out of camp. he knew he was going to dry and he didn’t want any of the boys to see him. Soon he did cry, so much that the tears dripped off his face andbwet the cantle of his saddle.’

[Old_Mac_Donald]

It has been said that Pat Parelli’s mare Magic often urinated herself during “piaffe” (Pat’s version thereof). However the source of this info was Deb Bennett, who had a beef with Pat and could thus be an unreliable source.

[Bluey]

@Xanthoria

Dragging this thread up to add this bit from Lonesome Dove by Larry McMurtry, who one would think would know…

I can’t find the page now, but he describes a young cowhand riding along who is crying so much the cantle of his saddle gets wet. Not the pommel. The cantle.

Maybe he was so sad, he was riding backwards, not wanting to face reality, where he was going.

[Xanthoria]

Lol maybe