Horse Fitness at the Lower Levels

[BigMick]

@Synthesis

There’s two big challenges with the draft x types.

1. they need more fitness work
2. they are a much more physically demanding ride that the typical TB or light TB cross. So the people who ride draft crosses, who often need more fitness (me included) actually need WAY more fitness to ride a draft x around XC.

I’ve ridden draft crosses for years and I can ride a TB for double/triple the time and still be less physically tired.

AMEN! My big horse is really physically exhausting sometimes. In fact, I was just whining about this tonight. “It’s just so hard!” Ugh. Good thing he’s cute. And I workout at the Y 4-5 times a week. Sheesh.

I foxhunt all winter, so my horse gets 2.5 hours of conditioning 1-2 times a week during the season. And that level of fitness makes him so much easier to ride. He’s awesomely fit during hunt season.

Now that hunt season is over, I hack him lightly before each regular ride and do one day of conditioning. That is usually a total of 45 minutes with each set being 10-12 minutes of trotting, 1-2 minutes of cantering, 1-2 minutes walking. All rolling terrain. He could still be fitter, so I’m either going to add another day of conditioning/partial conditioning or a long, slow distance day. Or, based on comments above - more cantering!

[Synthesis]

@BigMick

AMEN! My big horse is really physically exhausting sometimes. In fact, I was just whining about this tonight. “It’s just so hard!” Ugh. Good thing he’s cute. And I workout at the Y 4-5 times a week. Sheesh.

I foxhunt all winter, so my horse gets 2.5 hours of conditioning 1-2 times a week during the season. And that level of fitness makes him so much easier to ride. He’s awesomely fit during hunt season.

Now that hunt season is over, I hack him lightly before each regular ride and do one day of conditioning. That is usually a total of 45 minutes with each set being 10-12 minutes of trotting, 1-2 minutes of cantering, 1-2 minutes walking. All rolling terrain. He could still be fitter, so I’m either going to add another day of conditioning/partial conditioning or a long, slow distance day. Or, based on comments above - more cantering!

I always enjoy popping people on my big draft cross. They always get off with a better appreciation of my actual fitness. (Well, of my entire skill set actually. Most specifically, my ability to sit her trot :lol:)

[Sticky_Situation]

Maybe (hopefully?) it’s my imagination, but it seems to me like at the lower levels, there is a growing trend toward riding outside the ring being something that happens on “special occasions” (i.e. events and XC schooling days) rather than something that is incorporated into regular work a couple times a week.

It doesn’t take a great deal of fitness to canter around a BN course, but to a horse that isn’t used to doing some hill work on a regular basis, a little bit of rolling terrain will get him tired in a hurry, especially if he’s a heavier type like a draft cross.

Lack of riding outside the ring also creates riders that aren’t comfortable trotting and canter up and down hills, and who aren’t fit enough to stay off the horse’s back … which only makes the horse get tired faster.

Im sure part of the problem is also less access to places to ride out … many lower level eventers are probably at landlocked suburban barns where opportunities to ride outside the ring are limited. But to me that is a priority when choosing a barn (not quite as important as how well the horses are cared for, but still very important!)

[LovieBird]

@Sticky Situation

Maybe (hopefully?) it’s my imagination, but it seems to me like at the lower levels, there is a growing trend toward riding outside the ring being something that happens on “special occasions” (i.e. events and XC schooling days) rather than something that is incorporated into regular work a couple times a week.

It doesn’t take a great deal of fitness to canter around a BN course, but to a horse that isn’t used to doing some hill work on a regular basis, a little bit of rolling terrain will get him tired in a hurry, especially if he’s a heavier type like a draft cross.

Lack of riding outside the ring also creates riders that aren’t comfortable trotting and canter up and down hills, and who aren’t fit enough to stay off the horse’s back … which only makes the horse get tired faster.

Im sure part of the problem is also less access to places to ride out … many lower level eventers are probably at landlocked suburban barns where opportunities to ride outside the ring are limited. But to me that is a priority when choosing a barn (not quite as important as how well the horses are cared for, but still very important!)

I agree with this. Riding across terrain is very different from riding in a perfectly level, groomed arena.

I ride out in the pasture at least once a week. I do worry about trotting and cantering on downhill slopes and the wear on my horse’s joints. Although our “hills” are pretty mild and I usually try to do switchbacks to minimize the impact.

[merrygoround]

@LovieBird

One more question: what kind of frame/pace is appropriate? Should I be pushing for more of a connected dressage frame?

At the lowest levels and up through novice, “frame” is the last consideration. As long as you can do a basic dressage test in a light contact, you should be fine,. Concentrate on your geometry, accuracy and quality of transitions, and riding straight up that center line, cut no corners, and “frame” should take care of itself.

[OverandOnward]

@merrygoround

At the lowest levels and up through novice, “frame” is the last consideration. As long as you can do a basic dressage test in a light contact, you should be fine,. Concentrate on your geometry, accuracy and quality of transitions, and riding straight up that center line, cut no corners, and “frame” should take care of itself.

Agreed. Scoring better and placing better in dressage at the lower levels depends more on the quality of the ride than the quality of the horse, IMO from watching lots of rides. Fancy horses with a less-skilled or nervous rider may not have an accurate test. Average horses with an excellent ride will turn in accurate, correct tests, and get better scores. It’s interesting to watch.

Homework done well pays off at the lower levels.

[asterix]

The question about connection was not about riding a dressage test but about conditioning. I would say you want a light, steady connection and a forward but relaxed pace, for the lower levels. No need to try for any stronger connection but I would like the horse to be in the bridle and working a bit over its back, not inverted.

[bornfreenowexpensive]

@LovieBird

I have always heard that conditioning wasn’t necessary until Training/Prelim.

After reading the Max Corcoran Heels Down thread, some suggested that conditioning/fitness is important even at the lower levels. I was wondering if anyone could provide an example of a conditioning regime for the average beginner novice/novice horse.

No one ever said fitness isn’t important at the lower levels…just that you don’t typically need to be doing canter sets or extended fitness focused work. You DO need to ride your horse, hack them out and do consistent work for the levels. It also GREATLY depends on the horse. MOST Tbs get pleanty fit enough just doing normal consistent training work. I don’t do canter sets on my TBs until we are thinking of moving up to Prelim…because they are fit enough with our normal training. But every horse is an individual and you have to do what is right for each horse.

What CAN be lacking…is the horsemanship to know what is enough (at all levels). I see people who haven’t ridden in 2 weeks get on their horse for a 3 hour trail ride then wonder why they are sore (the horse and probably themselves). You shouldn’t take a horse out at BN who only gets ridden twice a week for 30 minutes. It’s about common sense horsemanship that doesn’t always seem to be taught.

[Lusoluv]

Unfortunately here in Area 4, I see dressage judge comments all the time focusing on “frame” at the lower levels: Starter - Novice. This is for schooling shows and USEA shows. I always tell less experienced riders to keep a steady connection on both reins (not hanging on the inside rein and letting the outside one droop) and ride for accuracy first. Then follow the comments of the judges and work towards improving those details as the show season and rider experience continues. At our first local schooling show a BN rider got several comments of “horse needs to be rounder” and another got “horse needs to be packaged better”. The BN horse was on the vertical for many moments, tho not consistently and not during transitions. Check - she is working towards that. Score was 38; very fair. Second horse was on the bit 95% of the time, lovely forward swinging gaits, a momentary hiccup in contact at R canter depart and some steps medium walk. I was thinking 28-30 score. Test got a 37 I don’t see the word “package” on any of the test directives. I see “straightness, willing, balance, quality”, etc.

No wonder so many Eventers hate dressage. You think you’re getting tested on your lower level horse’s training, then get some judge who thinks they’re at Dressage at Devon??? Starter, BN and N tests are “training level” dressage tests. Where does it say horses must be in a First/second level frame 100% of the time or you’re in the hi 30s?

[kcmel]

@merrygoround

At the lowest levels and up through novice, “frame” is the last consideration. As long as you can do a basic dressage test in a light contact, you should be fine,. Concentrate on your geometry, accuracy and quality of transitions, and riding straight up that center line, cut no corners, and “frame” should take care of itself.

Hmmm, not around here. If your horse is going around above the bit he’s not going to score well. But most divisions here are pretty competitive, even at starter trials.

[16_Hands]

@kcmel

Hmmm, not around here. If your horse is going around above the bit he’s not going to score well. But most divisions here are pretty competitive, even at starter trials.

Same in my area (VII)

[evilc123]

@merrygoround

At the lowest levels and up through novice, “frame” is the last consideration. As long as you can do a basic dressage test in a light contact, you should be fine,. Concentrate on your geometry, accuracy and quality of transitions, and riding straight up that center line, cut no corners, and “frame” should take care of itself.

I think OP was referring to conditioning rides, not dressage tests.

[kcmel]

@evilc123

I think OP was referring to conditioning rides, not dressage tests.

Maybe if you condition in a dressage ring! Otherwise I’m not sure where geometry and the centerline come in!

[asterix]

Just a side note on dressage scoring. While I completely agree with the comments about an appropriate level of connection for a lower level horse doing a BN or N test, I find that our perception of what is a decent score is very different than in straight dressage (which I have been dabbling in for the last year). If you look at the scores for a recognized dressage show for Training level (which is roughly novice plus), you will see that the lower echelon score in the 50s, many in the low to mid 60s, some in the upper 60s, and a handful in the 70s. That translates to a bellcurve in eventing scores of 40s, 30s (with high 30s being perfectly respectable and low 30s very good), and a smattering of high to mid 20s. A rider scoring the equivalent of a 37, a 63, would be happy. Probably wouldn’t win, and may want to be hitting more like 65/66 before moving up, but no one would think that was a bad score.

[RainWeasley]

@kcmel

Maybe if you condition in a dressage ring! Otherwise I’m not sure where geometry and the centerline come in!

I think she meant that OP was asking if they should condition in more of a dressage frame or not. Merrygoround’s response was more dressage arena-related. I’ve always wondered this too, about conditioning rides and hacking out in general. Is it better to let them relax and totally stretch out, or stay connected, or a bit of both, when out hacking?

[evilc123]

@kcmel

Maybe if you condition in a dressage ring! Otherwise I’m not sure where geometry and the centerline come in!

She didn’t say anything about geometry or centerline. This is literally all she asked and it was in relation to her original question about conditioning LL horses:

“One more question: what kind of frame/pace is appropriate? Should I be pushing for more of a connected dressage frame?”

[LovieBird]

@RainWeasley

I think she meant that OP was asking if they should condition in more of a dressage frame or not. Merrygoround’s response was more dressage arena-related. I’ve always wondered this too, about conditioning rides and hacking out in general. Is it better to let them relax and totally stretch out, or stay connected, or a bit of both, when out hacking?

Yes, this is what I meant, but it seems to have spawned an interesting conversation!

I’m thinking that having a horse pushing from behind, through his back, “weight lifting” is going to be a heck of alot harder than just cruising around.

[evilc123]

@LovieBird

Yes, this is what I meant, but it seems to have spawned an interesting conversation!

I’m thinking that having a horse pushing from behind, through his back, “weight lifting” is going to be a heck of alot harder than just cruising around.

I asked my trainer your exact question recently and she gave me the answer that asterix posted above–some connection, horse should be pushing and through, but not in full collection.

[extrastars]

this thread is very interesting! i agree with asterix as well. i only have experience w/ tbs and just recently started leasing a draft cross and shes very different to ride than te typical tb.h

[Synthesis]

@evilc123

…
“One more question: what kind of frame/pace is appropriate? Should I be pushing for more of a connected dressage frame?”

Really, the answer is “Both” On XC, even at the lower levels, you would have the times between fences where the horse is just moving along in an energy efficient manner and the times on approach where you would be more connected in preparation to jump.

So if your conditioning rides are mostly hacking rides?

• Start trotting/cantering in a more connected manner, roll it out to the looser/freer version of the gait, reconnect before the downward transition.
• Pick up a trot and shoulder in along the path in the field, play with changing the bend to a renvers and back without the barrier of the walls. Then, straighten and let them move out freely.
• Practice simple changes through trot along the path. Left lead for 10, change, right lead for 10.
• Shoulder in as you sit trot up hills to weightlift and get that uphill feeling you want to carry over to the ring.

But keep the proportioning around 70%+ free efficient movement. There's always arena time for the connected work.