Horse flipping bit

[fermecinqsens]

I’m asking this question for my sister who isn’t a member here. She has a 6 yo who has a habit of flipping her bit in her mouth. I’ve posted a video to illustrate. And otherwise she is always playing with the bit as if she’s a 3 yo with the bit in her mouth for the first time. My sister started her under saddle 3 years ago and she has always been mouthy like this. I’ve included a photo of her current bit. She has tried various other different bits, metal of various types, different mouth pieces (mullen, single joint, double joint), a happy mouth…
Any ideas?

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[Huntin_Pony]

So many possible replies . . . I am eager to hear what the CoTH community says.

But a lip strap (some call it a “bit hobble”) will prevent the flipping and really, is a correct piece of equipment when not using a cavesson.

[atlatl]

Looks to me like the bit is too low in her mouth and isn’t sitting in the “gap” so she’s moving it to a place more comfortable. Might be worthwhile to have an equine dentist look at her teeth and see if she needs a bit seat. I’d check her teeth and the fit of the bridle before resorting to forcing her mouth closed.

ETA: looks like she has a very deep mouth. I suppose it’s a possibility that it’s too high in her mouth but then I don’t think she’d be able to flip it.

[Huntin_Pony]

I don’t know if your comment about closing the mouth was related to my lip strap suggestion, but the strap only goes under the chin loosely to link the two bit rings together. It keeps the bit from being pulled through the horse’s mouth but also would prevent the flipping.

Here’s an old thread on the subject:

bit hobbles

General thoughts, ideas, recommendations for bit hobbles wanted… I do dressage and trail riding on my little Morgan mare, and since we’re leaving the competitive world, and she’s always been fussy about her noseband, I just pulled it off her bridle. She’s been SO much happier since I did it… no gaping mouth, tongue over the bit, running off (she probably wouldn’t anyway as she’s incredibly lazy for a Morgan), all of which I feared. She has a very soft mouth. But, I am told that for safety, I…

[atlatl]

@Huntin_Pony

I don’t know if your comment about closing the mouth was related to my lip strap suggestion

It was not; I know what a lip strap is.

[Zevida]

@atlatl

Looks to me like the bit is too low in her mouth and isn’t sitting in the “gap” so she’s moving it to a place more comfortable. Might be worthwhile to have an equine dentist look at her teeth and see if she needs a bit seat. I’d check her teeth and the fit of the bridle before resorting to forcing her mouth closed.

ETA: looks like she has a very deep mouth. I suppose it’s a possibility that it’s too high in her mouth but then I don’t think she’d be able to flip it.

My first thought was also that the bit is too low in her mouth, and that shortening the bit straps by 1-2 holes and see what if any difference that makes could be something to try.

[MsM]

My boy was very mouthy at 6, I went through many bits, looking for one with better acceptance. He didn’t manage to flip it like yours, but he would mouth it and fiddle and be distracted.

My impression looking at the bit is that it may be too tempting to play with. And I agree with playing with the placement.

FWIW, for my horse, a bean eggbutt bit and a snug but not tight flash noseband helped him understand where the bit should be. And what it was for!

[goodhors]

An idea is to leave the headstall and bit on the horse when she is stalled. Let her wear this for a hour or two, see how much she is still chewing at the end of your time limit. I would do this several days in a row, before or after her work session. Then I would give horse a little bit of hay to chew on. We used smooth ring sided snaffles, about 3/8" thick. Thicker mouthpieces may be too big for a young horse to deal with yet, can’t close his jaw and lips. Thinner mouthpiece may be sharp on their bars.

We do this with our young horses before they get started, so being bridled, wearing the bit awhile, is not a big deal, nothing to get excited about. We call it “mouthing” the horses because it is what our Grandfathers called it as they started young horses.

Seems to take the fun out of chomping on the bit, as their jaw gets tired. All but two horses we have done this with were very quiet in the mouth afterwards in any any work sessions. The two who were not, were exceptionally mouthy horses, a mother and son. They just seemed to need to lick or put lips on things when held, NEVER bit things. We gave them loosejaw bits, which allowed them to lift and drop the ported mouthpiece when they needed to stand quietly. Just gave them a “fidget” toy, they never moved feet or swung heads while standing for long (competitive carriage horses) times until their turn. Mare’s other sons did NOT do the fidget thing at all.

Your mare might just have never worn a bit except in work, so she plays with it waiting for more training things. May be a bit stressed, waiting for “next” thing. Never got tired to the point of just holding the bit quietly. S

[Long_Time_Lurker]

Just curious whether she has tried a cavesson, or whether she is philosophically opposed to using one. I would think that a cavesson, without being tight, would make it harder to flip the bit. If a properly adjusted cavesson (2 fingers room) has been tried what happened? Better, worse, no difference, solved this problem but created another one?

[endlessclimb]

Outside of the already great suggestions, I’d try something with a port, a loose ring snaffle, and then as a last ditch try I’d try something with heavy rings, like the western folks use. Might take the fun out of it.

My Old Man horse has always been a bit chomper when idle. Hes smart and wants to DO things. He doesnt do it when working, just when standing around, and he doesnt do it with a heavy bit.

[luvmyhackney]

Wrap it with a fruit roll up or put honey on it. They learn to hold the bit and be quiet. You can also tie it on her halter or use a head stall and let her eat meals/hay with it for a few days.

Plus if its cold out make sure you warm the bit. I can’t imagine how unpleasant an ice cold bit in a warm mouth must feel.

[ThreeWishes]

Agree. Too low. Experiment with other mouth pieces. Way too low

[Zonderpaard]

The arms of that mouthpiece look rather curvy, which effectively lowers the center of the bit.

If she’s doing this even with a straight Mullen mouth, I’d hunt down a d ring but with little loops on the Ds to attach the cheek pieces and reins to. That does bring a bit of leverage but would make it hard to flip the whole bit over at least when she’s being ridden. And a lip strap.

[fermecinqsens]

Thanks for the ideas so far - I’ve relayed them to my sister.
She says she has tried leaving the bit on her for a period of time and also doing other activities in it (leading, brushing).
Yes she has used cavessons and tried a flash.

I also think the bit looks too low. My sister just asked a bit expert what to do and that woman said LOWER the bit and try a single joint with curved mouthpiece. (She has only tried double joint or Mullen before).
Personally I don’t see how a single joint is going to change the fact that she seems to just not want this metal thing in her mouth.

I think the point about it being related to stress could be the case. It is a smart horse and quite anticipatory.

[Mondo]

I’m curious as to why you posted this in the dressage forum. Is this horse being trained western? A lip strap on a snaffle is not OK for traditional dressage, although it would be fine for western dressage. huntin_pony is correct that it would prevent the flipping. Second, if dressage is the goal with this horse, then the bridle needs a cavesson. If it were me, I’d add a properly adjusted flash, but a correctly adjusted cavesson alone ought to do the trick if your sister has an aversion to a flash or even a dropped noseband. All of this of course, after making sure that the bit is in the right place in the horse’s mouth.

[Posting_Trot]

I’d try moving the bit up (shortening the cheek piece by a hole). If that doesn’t help, I’d try a baucher on the theory that there’s something about her current bit that she dislikes. Some horses that play excessively with the bit seem to prefer a baucher.

There are a lot of different options in terms of mouthpieces. Here are a few:

Baucher bits

[Simkie]

I have a horse that does this when he’s uncomfortable somewhere. It doesn’t need to be overt lameness level discomfort, but when something isn’t right for him in his body, this is how it shows up first.

Not like that would be my first thought for a youngster that’s done this since being started under saddle, but perhaps something to keep in mind if you cross other stuff off the list & this persists.

[outerbanks77]

@Posting_Trot

I’d try moving the bit up (shortening the cheek piece by a hole). If that doesn’t help, I’d try a baucher on the theory that there’s something about her current bit that she dislikes. Some horses that play excessively with the bit seem to prefer a baucher.

There are a lot of different options in terms of mouthpieces. Here are a few:

Baucher bits

I was also going to suggest a Baucher, since the cheek pieces attach separately from the bit rings, so it would be harder to flip.

My mare hates metal bits, and actually goes best in a Sweet Billy’s plaited rope bit (I use a Winderen for dressage). To my surprise, the rope has not been chewed up, and it has moulded to her mouth shape, which I think would make it harder to flip, and probably more comfortable. Leather would do the same, but I suspect it would get chewed up.

Also +1 for dentistry. Even if one vet has checked, it can be worth getting other eyes on the situation. Things can be missed.

[furlong47]

What about a Miklem type bridle? I think the cheekpieces would be short enough that the bit can’t flip completely around like that, especially with the noseband that is below the bit as well.

[Mondo]

@furlong47

What about a Miklem type bridle? I think the cheekpieces would be short enough that the bit can’t flip completely around like that, especially with the noseband that is below the bit as well.

Great idea!