Horse flipping head around/leapy - ONLY at canter

[endlessclimb]

TL;DR: Horse is compliant and pretty quiet at all gaits, except canter. Some days she’s fine. Some days she puts her ears in my mouth and almost pegasus-leaps around? What could be potential causes? Even after a canter-pegasus-experience, she’s ok to walk-trot-lateral work. What physical ailment would present itself ONLY at the canter?

Longer version:

Mare, just turned 7 years old. I was showing her first level last year without issue, she was schooling second. She got about a month “off” (still being lunged a few times a week) due to my life getting crazy busy last fall. On the first few rides back, she had no half halt, no downward transitions. A few “hey, YOU” rides, where we would “full halt” if we couldn’t manage to half halt or do a transition, and we were back on the same page.

Based on Xray findings from last year, I know she has some mild changes in a hock that had severe cellulitis when she was ~2 years old. I elected to inject her hocks with Arthramid about 2 months ago, based on some mild left hind lameness I was seeing.

Everything got SO much worse. She’s always been an occasional bucket pooper, but all of a sudden it was every single day she was doing it. Her hamstrings were SO tight that they would spasm even with currying. That’s when these weird canter flip outs started, too. I posted about it in the venting thread that she had a VERY bad day when I was just going over poles. That has continued since that day, and now it’s about every other ride that I deal with this on the flat, or over poles, doesn’t matter. Pegasus, head as high as she can get it and still trying to flip it higher.

Things I did/plan to do:

Equioxx trial, 2 weeks. No change.

Saddle fitter is scheduled to come take a look on the 20th. I have one of those play-doh filled pads coming tonight, will give that a try for an objective opinion as well.

Chiro is coming tomorrow, and I will meet her out there.

After that?? Any suggestions? I’m thinking a trip to Purdue.

I am not against riding it out, but for her to be so good walk and trot and then lose her cookies at canter - it has to be physical, no?

[OverandOnward]

Yes. It has to be physical.

It’s really hard to know when it is worthwhile to work through something that is causing this much havoc and is hard to diagnose exactly.

Can you just turn her out for six months or a year, and see where things are after that? Just a thought. Have seen at work in the past, when nothing else was working.

I don’t really have any diagnosis or other treatment to suggest at this point, due to knowing from your COTH posts that you are an experienced horse person. You probably know more than I do about how to approach something like this.

[endlessclimb]

Well, I could. But it seems like to me, the month she had off was the beginning of all these changes. For her to say “stuff it” on simple transitions was pretty out of character for her. Some stern riding and she came back around, but it was really bizarre to ride a horse who was schooling second 2 months ago, and have her respond… not at all! to a half halt or transition request.

I’m trying to think of what body parts “move” more at the canter. SI?

[IPEsq]

Back and pelvis issues can cause hopping in the canter. Also might be a cause for wall sitting/bucket sitting/pooping. It can be complex like does she actually have a back problem or is she just really tight and compensating somewhere following the time off and the hind limb lameness? Is the hind limb lameness fully resolved? Neuro type issues / pain can also cause what you are describing with the addition of head flinging.

[endlessclimb]

She doesn’t hop behind, like bunny hop. It’s more of an “uphill in a bad way” type thing. Her hind still land apart, the front does more of the propping.

[endlessclimb]

@IPEsq

Is the hind limb lameness fully resolved?

Sorry for double reply - for this, I’d say no. The left doesn’t track up, is short the right by about 2-3". She is also tighter on the left hamstring.

[millerra]

I would check for female issues - only because I used to have a mare who would get very uncomfortable when cycling and step short on a hind leg. She never did the hoppy stuff though… maybe try roboxin (sp?) if she’s showing muscle spasms.

[endlessclimb]

I have some, and it was on my list to try. I wanted to wait until after the chiro (tomorrow) though, so they can see her in all her… “glory.”

Female issues, that’s certainly a possibility!!

[endlessclimb]

Also - I have an Equestic clip and it’s been useless. It says she’s sound when I can see she’s not. Showing only a 1-3% difference on the left.

[barnesthenoble]

My first thought is that she had some sort of compensation pattern going with the hocks and something else (SI?), and that removing the pain from the hocks made whatever else hurt much more obvious and she can’t compensate for it now. From the sounds of it my first suspicion would be SI, especially with the issues primarily at the canter (and factoring in that she started blowing through half halts and downwards). It would probably be worthwhile to reexamine the hocks, too–I couldn’t find much information, but I wonder if there’s any risk of it making discomfort worse? I don’t know much about the gels.

Is she equally bad on both leads, or is one side noticeably worse than the other?

[endlessclimb]

Generally the right lead is worse, but it is liable to happen either direction. The right lead being worse makes sense for that ouchy left hind - it has to take all the weight for a second.

I didn’t read that risk when I was doing research prior to scheduling the injection, but its possible. The joint feels cold and isn’t swollen.

[TWH_Girl]

@endlessclimb

Sorry for double reply - for this, I’d say no. The left doesn’t track up, is short the right by about 2-3". She is also tighter on the left hamstring.

I would continue to pursue this as my target instead of necessarily thinking it is something else. I like the idea of hauling to Purdue. The hydrogels don’t address inflammation all that great IMO. Maybe Arthamid just didn’t do it or maybe the stifle or SI is sore and coming into play. Believe me, I know. I have a 6 yr old head flipper with some NQR hind end issues who was going great until all of a sudden he wasn’t. It’s agonizing.

[RJC]

@endlessclimb, do you have a good biomechanics specialist near you? The PT I work with is a PhD human physical therapist as well as a certified equine rehab specialist and she can see and hear things when she observes horses in motion that I cannot, even after they are pointed out to me. She’s made huge differences across the local horse community by pinpointing issues that the vets could not, then providing isometric exercises, ridden PT plans, or recommending specific injections to owner/vet. She would be my first call if I had this problem, ideally for an overlapping visit with the vet so they can consult with each other.

[endlessclimb]

The magnawave practitioner is going to school for that, but she just started. The vet won’t work with other people, for various reasons (he “offers” lots of services, but isn’t very good at them, in my experience).

[RJC]

Your vet won’t work with others? Ever? That’s…frustrating.

[IPEsq]

Thanks for the clarification. I don’t say this often, but it might be a bit of a training issue + the hind end lameness + weakness. My big, young horse went through a period of time when his right lead was very up and down. It was following a period of being extra heavy on the right (due to being young and big) plus some extra wildness/teenager in the spring behavior which prompted me to go all human draw reins on him for a little bit in one ride to keep him in line. Which, having been started in Germany was something he responded to as far as obedience, but I really screwed up the canter for a bit. He did come out the other side of it, and I had him checked out anyway by the vets, and he was being ridden 2x a week by my dressage trainer at that time as well, and we never found anything other than the chain of events pointing to the CTJ meeting we had about his behavior got him stuck.

[endlessclimb]

I’m not opposed, for sure. I think sometimes they can learn a trick and it sticks with them. When she did it for the poles, I did put draws on her and she hit them (hard) exactly once. She was fine for the rest of the ride, though I didnt push it on and on and on.

@RJC nope, not if it’s a service he offers! I actually had to haul to another vet to get health check papers and release forms signed off just so she can see this (more talented) chiropractor. He’s the best we’ve got in the area, decent on staying up to date on modern tech.

[endlessclimb]

A couple videos from today.

20240311_180539

20240311_180321

Also, rode in the Port Lewis pad. Did I not ride long enough, or does this mean my saddle more or less fits? I rode for 30 minutes, walk trot canter.

[IPEsq]

She doesn’t look that terrible behind. Any way you can video the canter behavior?

[endlessclimb]

I can try with the pivo, later this week maybe! She didn’t do the behavior today, but felt “not right” and if I would have asked her to sit back and collect I bet she would have done it.