Horse flipping head around/leapy - ONLY at canter

[Simkie]

Has she had any vascular or lymphatic weirdness in the hind end since issues with hock cellulitis? Odd filling or not filling when you expect?

I ask because I have weirdness like that in my young horse. She recently popped with a really fat jiggly hock, which made me think of your old threads about the hock cellulitis. She has some other weird filling things, too. So it’s a bit top of mind.

There are several vascular/lymphatic weirdness things in humans that can cause pain. They probably occur, to some extent, in horses. We don’t have the tools to diagnose in horses AFAIK.

Unfortunately, just because we don’t find what’s wrong doesn’t mean there isn’t anything. Yeah, someone could probably insist she not express the behavior you’re seeing in the canter. But shutting down communication doesn’t mean the problem is solved.

[endlessclimb]

She has some mild filling around the fetlocks that resolves during the ride. I’m hoping living out 24/7 when I’m able to move her home will fix it entirely.

While I know it won’t fix the “problem”, I do expect my horses to tolerate some amount of discomfort without being stink heads. I apologize to them that they’re owned by an amateur, but that it is what it is.

[TWH_Girl]

Right?! I have notoriously reexamined the past few months trying to figure out what the heck changes other than the shoes. I’m going to FL next week and fear I’m going to sit on the beach, fry and worry. Perhaps I will become so deliriously sunburned that I won’t care for a few days

[endlessclimb]

And tonight she was perfect, with a small jump and trot poles. Gahhhh.

Shoes tomorrow.

[Lunabear1988]

Maybe the chiropractor helped even though no big issues were apparent?! Or she is trying to make you feel crazy ?? (Just kidding of course.)

Fingers crossed that the shoes really help though.

[Simkie]

I’ve been trying to remember where I read about low head carriage as a symptom of a neuro neck issue.

It was here:

Cervical OA and Basket Surgery (cervical interbody fusion) experience

Hey all - I figured I’d write this post to add to the small number of posts on horses who have had this surgery due to arthritis. Let me know if you have any specific questions, but I’ll post a summary below. My mare is a 13yr old Holsteiner that jumped in Europe, then was imported in 2018 as a hunter. I purchased her in 2020; she was doing the 3’ at that time. I did feet/limb radiographs, and took one view of the neck, but did not radiograph the entirety of the neck since she was sound and doi…

Canter issues were also present.

[endlessclimb]

It’s definitely within the realm of possibility. Should we end up at Purdue, it will be a focus.

That said, she’s done that exact thing since she was 3. It’s nothing new. Doesn’t mean it’s not significant, but it is not a change.

[TWH_Girl]

I hope it’s not that. That OP and one other who had that surgery said the cost was $20k or so and a lot of rehab. Yikes.
I’m hoping for shoes to help!

[endlessclimb]

I wouldn’t even consider it. I’d retire her for a year or two and then likely euthanize. That amount of money is not, and will never be, in the cards for a horse.

That’s just me though.

[endlessclimb]

As I’ve said before. I’ve seen this issue left hind for a long time. If you look back at the Hanoverian inspection prep thread, watch her free jump videos. She kicks out that left hind about 50% of the time over the final fence.

That did not go unnoticed by me. I just don’t want to spend a gazillion dollars chasing ghosts. Been there, got the t shirt. Yet… here we are.

[NaturalSelection]

I don’t want to derail OP’s thread, but how to distinguish between low head carriage on calm, relaxed horse free-stretching vs neck issues?

[Alterration]

I didn’t read the whole thread, but that LH definitely does not look right in the longing videos. It doesn’t track up but she also lands interestingly on that foot. Did you do fetlock or hoof rads on it? Of course now I have to go back and read the thread…mea culpa if you already did.

Truly sorry I have nothing more useful - but I can imagine that could cause all kinds of discomfort with the whole hindquarter if she is moving that unevenly.

Ok, correction now that I’ve read the whole thread and watched ALL the videos. The left hind is getting progressively worse. On the free longed video it appears to be stifle but on the saddled video it’s a bit less clear where it is at but she is moving worse. In the original, older videos it is definitely not as bad. I’d be checking out that LH pretty thoroughly Purdue is worth a trip.

[endlessclimb]

It twists as she loads and unloads it. It was noted on her inspection papers. She also tracks narrow behind, but that has improved since she was 3 - she used to scrub the velcro on boots loose, but doesn’t anymore.

I see an unusually low ROM in her hocks, personally. It’s like a shuffle.

[Alterration]

Both hocks don’t have a lot of ROM but that concerns me less because it is bilateral. Of course - if you stare at a horse long enough, especially the hinds, they all look a little wonky. It almost looks like she picks up that left hind, moves it, and then it’s a little stabby in the toe like it’s offloading the back of the leg. The right appears to be swinging a bit more. Of course she could be doing that because of pain in the right which would invalidate my theory entirely but because the right tracks up more it just makes me point at that left

I’ve got one who is doing something similar. I have stared at his videos for hours - he is even I think but it’s his right hind that doesn’t look entirely correct. For him I think it might be tendon or tightness in some muscle as it does get worse in deeper footing, and he strongly objects to cantering in odd footing (if for instance he has to go through mud, there are many emotions involved). He flexes fine, so it’s definitely more subtle and deep. And 9 times out of 10 he goes into canter fine, but if asked to canter before he is entirely warmed up - even if he has been out - we get bunny hops and leaps. Not exuberant ones, he appears sore and resistant. If we warm up for an exceptionally long time we don’t have the issue. I’m hoping his goes away without more medical intervention as I strongly believe with a horse that is over 10 you’ll find things that might not be the culprit.

Anyway - she does lateral work I am assuming based on your description of her training level. How is she in a LY or shoulder in - can you ask that LH to step more toward the midline? If you can, that might help you strengthen that leg if you’re not ready to do more work ups.

[Simkie]

@NaturalSelection

I don’t want to derail OP’s thread, but how to distinguish between low head carriage on calm, relaxed horse free-stretching vs neck issues?

I’m certainly no expert, but there are a few things that would make me look critically at it:

If there’s a lameness issue
If the horse is only going low one direction
If the horse only goes low and seems unwilling or unable to have a different outline
If the way of going changes significantly without explanation

This horse moves very differently to me going different directions. I’m really out of practice eyeballing lameness, so I sure can’t explain all the parts of “different,” but I did think it was pretty striking, and worrisome.

Neck crap does suck–I have one in my barn, and she’s been retired ohhhhhhh close to 15 years now?–and I sure hope there’s a better, more hopeful, explanation for what’s going on here. But definitely some similarities to that thread linked above

[endlessclimb]

It’s just the videos, for the head up/down thing. She equally enjoys making a dirt track with her nose in either direction. It’s just a matter of whether she heard an invisible ghost in the last minute or not.

I see her moving all the time though, I can understand how short videos may taint things. Really the only consistency is the lack of tracking up on the left hind.

[endlessclimb]

She can do all the lateral things. I was just starting half pass when my life got crazy and she got time off.

I’m trying to be patient here. Shoes will be this afternoon - I’ll talk to the new farrier and see what he thinks based on her symptoms.

My gut is still saying it’s something behind - the tightness in the hamstrings being the tell-tale.

[Dutchmare433]

I would just do the spinal tap and know for sure. The number on the titer doesn’t correlate very well with symptoms, it conveys exposure rather than severity of illness/parasite load.

A lot of neuro things present very similarly, I’d rather just spend the money on the tap than treating something that may or may not be relevant.

[endlessclimb]

We’re going to start with shoes.

[beau159]

@endlessclimb

Did not do blocks, but she flexed lame to it.

To get a “block” lameness exam around here, one must go to the large clinics.

That has not been in the cards time wise nor financially. Honestly, it still isn’t. But now that it’s bothering her so much that we can’t even ride for 20-30 minutes on the flat, it crawls up the priority list. Versus before it was just something that bothered me seeing it, but didn’t seem to bother her enough to impact her day to day performance. “serviceably sound” or whatever it’s called.

IMO, it’s time to go to a large clinic.Get yourself on the schedule now, and then you’ve got time to see if the new shows help at all (I will bet they won’t, but that’s JMO).

Here is what I see.
On your first set of trotting videos you posted, she is sometimes dragging her LEFT hind foot and she does not reach under herself with the left hind as much as she does the right hind.
This was reinforced in her cantering videos. She does NOT reach under her as much with the LEFT hind when she is traveling counter-clockwise, than when she is traveling the other way in comparison to the right hind.

So I would say something is hurting her on the left hind leg. As far as “what” well that is a question. Could be stifle, hock, SI … neck… Yeah, I know that a person can go crazy chasing zebras, and I personally really hate stifle issues because they just don’t seem to respond well to usual treatments (like injections).

Typically when they don’t want to reach under themselves, it’s stifles. Not always but that’s the most likely culprit.

But I can absolutely tell something is bothering her in that hind end.