She still is moving weird, and tripping has started up again - happened the last time she had shoes on, too. She’s very daisy cutter naturally, so the up and down movement is not her norm.
I prefer how she feels and moves sans-shoes, but it was a good troubleshooting step. She will be due for new shoes the week she goes to Purdue (but after the visit), so if they have any suggestions they will be able to be immediately implemented.
My funky KS/NQR horse does this. I may have said this in the thread already, but he does significantly better sans shoes. He’s always been a daisy cutter mover, but shoes (multiple farriers, multiple setups and materials) = tripping for him. I wonder if they mess with his proprioception or something.
Very left field question - does she move this way with bell boots on also?
Tripping up front, or behind?
I understand the preference for her movement barefoot. It’s interesting her LH is worse with the shoe. Shoes (generally) should make a horse move better.
Tripping both. It doesn’t matter if I take the bell boots off or leave them on.
I can’t say I’ve tried seeing what happens with bellboots and her barefoot though. And now, I can’t. 
I notice most horses move differently with bell boots on, so I was wondering if what I was seeing up front was because of the bell boots.
These are standard steel shoes, yea? I’m thinking of all the times I’ve seen horses go worse in shoes. Most had thin soles and a wedge or rim pad helped. But I do remember one going worse that went worse because of a hock problem. What hoof was the jelly surprise in?
Her general outline is different in shoes. Is she still flipping her head with the shoes on?
You don’t have to answer my ten million questions, just so interested in your specific case and wish Shaney could talk.
I knew a woman who used little jingles–a cat collar, with a bell–to improve proprioception. She’d place it around the pastern for short warm ups or therapy sessions, using it for like five minutes.
It may be something that would be interesting to play around with, to see if changing her proprioception improves her way of going at all. It’s a really interesting tool.
My chiropractor does that with bell boots. 
She stressed that putting a bell boot on 24/7 won’t have the same effect - it has to be a novel sensation for the horse, so putting them on/off for a ride is enough.
I used it one summer for our STB that has 212 starts and about 212 physical complaints in his hock. 
Standard steels with quarter clips.
Jelly surprise was left hind, but negative all over to hoof testers. I don’t think it’s an acute thing like this, just due to duration of the problem.
She is still flipping her head, though she didn’t last night. I kept her on a 20m circle though, which tends to help keep her simmered down. I also didn’t ask her to REALLY sit, I was just happy we weren’t exploding honestly.
I could give it a try. I think I’ve done this in the past with her before, but I can’t remember for sure if it was her or my late mare.
This is something mentioned in Hillary Clayton’s book “ Conditioning Sport Horses”. I’ve used it with success.
Shayney was ridden by someone new today, and behaved herself. She was certainly put through her paces, and tried hard to be a good girl.
The lameness was not readily apparent (for lack of a better way to describe it - it’s the same as it always is), and she did not do pegasus leaps. (she hasn’t with me for the last two rides, either). Two suggestions came up - one, that Shayney tried this on me and I backed down, which caused her to try it again and again. Or, that maybe when she was out of shape her stifles were sticking a little and she remembers that.
Some training suggestions were made in regards to bitting and such. The person who came out was nice enough to look at both of my saddles - the jump saddle has significant bridging and is tight up front (just rode in the Port Lewis pad, and that’s what I gathered from that as well), and the flocking on the dressage saddle is ever so slightly uneven. The jump saddle is Xed until it’s refitted, and the dressage saddle is ok but needs some tweaking.
The person who so kindly came to ride is welcome to comment here on anything I missed. Thank you a million for coming out and sitting on my gal, and giving me your feedback!
Dear @endlessclimb, you did forget to include a couple observations I made during my visit:
Like many mares she will express her opinion. I didn’t feel any lameness or resistance while riding or watching her. Her demeanor was soft and pleasant. The occasional short left hind step seemed more demonstrative of the L/R side inequality - not lameness, IMO. She did lean into the contact on occasion when the work got more difficult. Totally normal for developing horses looking for an easier way. Consistent self-carriage is hard, and it takes strength and skill over many years. You’ve both accomplished a lot already. Perhaps the time off along with her sensitive nature have at worst resulted in “growing pains” vs actual lameness. I feel if she was in true pain, she would not have given me such prompt and polite canter departs. I don’t think I just got lucky; pain is pain. Unless she takes a turn for the worse, I’d keep riding her as usual until your appt. at Purdue. Fingers crossed that she’ll get a clear bill of health! Please keep us updated.
Awesome update!! @Lusoluv so glad you got to sit on one of my favorite mares on COTH.
The saddle not fitting would explain the inconsistent propping. Good eye!
Fingers crossed for continued good rides, Endlessclimb.
The rides continue to be good. I have sent her over some bigger (for her) fences, and also set up a ridiculously hard trot pole exercise (20+ poles continuous, on a serpentine) that I would follow with a canter transition, some lateral work on the long side, transition back to a trot right back into the poles.
Maybe the shoes did more than I thought, but just took awhile to get there.
She still is short on the left hind, but it’s now back to what it was before, behavior wise. I’m hesitant to go to Purdue to spend a ton of money chasing ghosts, as I’ve stated previously. If her good behavior continues, I’m more than likely going to cancel the appointment.
I think that’s wise. I’d keep an eye on the imbalance and perhaps train more for that side (if that makes any sense at all) and re-evaluate if something goes sideways again. With almost any horse you can find something if you look hard enough.
Makes sense to me. It takes a few weeks for the body and muscles to adjust to the new normal. I experience something similar every year with one of my horses. His hinds have to be pulled for the winter due to group turnout. It always takes a few weeks for him to really open up and start moving over his back freely once the shoes go back on.
If you’re seeing continued improvement, I don’t think a huge vet bill chasing a nebulous possibly-not-even-an-issue ghost is necessary.
I have another gelding that has a slight change in ROM up front from an old race-track injury (DDFT/suspensory rupture) some ~10 years ago. The rads show full healing, but there’s loss of elasticity. The ROM doesn’t improve with blocks, so the vets feel it is a reasonable assumption it’s not actively causing him pain. I could totally see a new owner thinking this was something acute and chasing it. It may be something similar as what you’re dealing with - an old injury that is healed but the limb will never have its original ROM.
I just skimmed through this thread and it’s good to see that you’re potentially seeing some improvement. I have been struggling with some canter weirdness with my WB mare too. She is more prone to stopping than to leaping, but she goes wide behind, and will often swap leads or jam her feet into he ground if I try to HH or collect her much. She also tends towards being a little short on the LH. She is 8 and has always been barefoot (I’ve had her since 2 and started her myself). They also have the tight hamstrings thing in common.
I am curious about why your new farrier decided not to put a wedge on her given the 0 to negative plantar angles? I’ve just started experimenting with glue-ons, and it’s early days yet, but I put my girl in a mild leather wedge on her hind feet, and so far it seems to be helping a lot with the canter. She was at 0-+1 or so on her plantar angles, and the vet suggested getting her up to about 3 (I just did a class with Daisy Bicking and she wants them at 5-8, but not sure we can accomplish that). She is now standing more squarely at rest, which I think will help with the tightness in the low back and hamstrings.
It’s his first time shoeing her - I switched farriers because I wasn’t happy with how things were going with the other one. Being as how it’s his first time doing her and she was going from fully barefoot to shoes, I’m totally okay with a KISS approach to start!
I just wish I knew WHAT was wrong. I’ve got the T-shirt (a few of them, actually) on hunting down mild lameness though, and it’s never been rewarding. As much as my brain says “yeah, but maybe THIS time…” I need to be wise with my pocketbook.
I’ll toss in a voice of dissent on cancelling the appointment. This is something that’s vexxed you for a long time, as shown with the number of lameness exams, neuro exams, EPM titers and injections you’ve run through with your local vet.
A second opinion isn’t a bad thing. It may turn up something your local vet has not. If it doesn’t, there’s still some good peace of mind. It may also provide clarity that will prevent you from going down a unfruitful path–like continuing to tap the hock, if a more in depth exam than your local vet can offer shows it’s not an issue.
And, horses being horses, she’s likely to revert just as soon as you cancel the appointment anyway
I hear you. But if we go down there, nothing is found - then what? I’m out 1700 and still have to stare at something that annoys me.
I am torn, but with a new farm I’m quite heavily leaning towards “it’s not the right time”.
I still have a week or so to decide.
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