Yes, that is why I went after her hocks. We had tried steroids before, and it didn’t help.
She has changes in the hock though, from cellulitis when she was on the track. That cellulitis is the same reason she didn’t race.
I didn’t learn about this until after I bought her.
Have you tried any other injections in that hock before, besides the Arthramid? I always heard it’s great in high motion joints, specifically stifles. Has your vet used it a lot in other cases?
Edited: you posted at the same time lol.
No response to steroid was perhaps telling you that the problem wasn’t inside the hock joint itself. Did she block sound to the hock?
Did not do blocks, but she flexed lame to it.
To get a “block” lameness exam around here, one must go to the large clinics.
That has not been in the cards time wise nor financially. Honestly, it still isn’t. But now that it’s bothering her so much that we can’t even ride for 20-30 minutes on the flat, it crawls up the priority list. Versus before it was just something that bothered me seeing it, but didn’t seem to bother her enough to impact her day to day performance. “serviceably sound” or whatever it’s called.
Between no response to steroid and no positive response to arthramid, I would put the hock low on the list, personally. I don’t understand why a vet would be willing to inject other stuff but not a little lido into the joint.
Do you have a local vet who can competently perform a neuro exam? There’s definitely a finesse and feel to them. Before bleeding dollars at a referral center, I’d evaluate her locally from a neuro perspective (if you have a person who can) and go from there. I’d also spend the $140 on a course on Ponazuril (regardless of exam results), since you do have an EPM titer. Does your titer include both S. neurona and N. hughesii, or just S. neurona? That you titered her three times suggests that you’ve been concerned about EPM–consider heeding that little voice.
It’s just not their gig, I guess? I don’t know. The clinics know the drill, and go straight to blocking. But it involves at least one day off work (edited for clarity - human work, my job. Not horse work. I don’t care if she has a month off, if it would fix the issue), most often 2-3 because you have to go back for the treatment (too many needles, they often won’t inject a joint same day as the lameness eval).
It was just for S. neurona.
"Vitamin E
VITAMIN E 6.84 2.0-4.0 ug/mL HIGH
EPM SAG 2,4/3 ELISA
SAG 2 4/3 ELISA
1:250
Weak immunoreactivity against S. neurona was detected. This result
indicates exposure to S. neurona, a causative agent of equine
protozoal myelitis (EPM). It does not confirm clinical disease.
Serum titers range from <1:250 (negative) to >1:4000 (high). A 1:250
serum titer is a borderline"
If you’d like to try another titer, you could send to Davis for IFAT. They do both S. neurona and N. hughesii.
I would just treat. That is low, but it’s an easy rule out for little cost and little risk. You’ve been concerned enough about this to test three times–treat to take it off the list.
Sometimes hocks can be a red-herring, including positive flexions. I’m not saying rule it out completely (since she has changes) but I wondered after going back and re-watching the video on desktop, if there’s some low grade foot soreness at play. I see it occasionally on the RF too - so I’m glad you’re putting shoes back on her, I really hope that resolves the issue.
Twice now I’ve had a horse flex to hocks when it was clinically something else. The first time it was NPA behind - the second time, it was Lyme. I was actually resigning myself to injecting the hocks on this horse as he was 14, but my vet said hold up, let’s see if he flexes after 2 months of doxy. He didn’t.
Sounds like you ruled out lyme though. I agree with Simkie, absent positive response to arthramid and steroids, it might be something else. $140 is ballpark an exam fee, so it might be worth trying the Ponazuril to see if it makes a difference. I have seen horses with low EPM titers respond well. In the world of horses where they bleed you of money, in nebulous cases like this I’m not against revisiting items on the docket that had questionable results like low titers.
I don’t think it’s a weakness/strength issue either. I’m with you there. I wouldn’t stop working her and would keep doing as you’re doing. I know that seems unkind, but you want a good baseline if you do end up going to Perdue. She’s frankly sounder in these videos than most ridden horses I see.
I took a couple of shots from JP Hourdebaight’s book regarding hind end lameness. I hope it is clear enough to read it. And I hope it’s helpful somehow.
The highlights are mine for a horse I am working on.
Wow, this looks interesting. What’s the title of the book? Is this Equine Massage, A General Guide or something more focused on the hind end?
How long is the treatment duration for, @Simkie ? If you remember. And this is all if I can get my historically stubborn vet to write a script.
I guess that’s part of my concern is to chase another rabbit for a couple months. I also need to give a couple weeks for the shoes and the saddle fitting to tell their story. I am the WORST for shotgun hitting a problem, and not knowing which of the pellets fixed it.
The soundness comment is a compliment coming from you, thank you. I just wish she had a little more stoicism rather than the freak out. My Old Man is lame lame lame on left hind, but I can ride him around free as a bird and he’s never worse for the wear.
I appreciate the communication, to some degree, but at the same time I like a little “suck it up” in there, too.
It’s a month. I saw within … maybe 10 days? That the gelding was improved.
There is the whole decoquinate/levamisole route, and that can be sourced without a script. There’s no quality research but a really rabid following of people who say it’s better than anything FDA approved. I would 100% advise going with ponazuril but if your vet just flat out refuses…it would be an option.
@Simkie, it’s this one. It’s been invaluable to me. I have several others, but this one is my go to.
I sympathize. I’ve got one like your Old Man. His leg could have fallen off and he still wouldn’t tell me. 
His brother could get a splinter and he’d lawn dart me. Something in the middle would be nice!
Thank you! I just ordered 
Available from Amazon for anyone else interested!
Anyone in the southern Chicagoland area who can somewhat decently ride want to come get on her? I know it sounds stupid given the nature of this thread, but one of my troubleshooting steps is having someone else ride and see if she still does it. Maybe it’s a me/her conflict thing?
Her freakouts won’t deck you if you can even remotely ride. Snatching at her when she’s doing it will absolutely make things worse though, so if you can sit a mild pegasus while muttering whoa I’ll pay you to get up there.
I was just flipping through her PPE and joke is on me - I xrayed her RIGHT hock because there was some effusion on it, but didn’t xray the left at that time because it looked fine and she wasn’t lame on it as a 3 year old.
gahhh
Also, found some lunging videos from 2022. This is at the old barn, with VERY deep footing. She is barefoot here, I believe.
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