Horse frog - Shedding or sick?

[TooMuchRebel]

I don’t have pics right this second, but I do believe my horses have unhealthy frogs. I initially attributed the look of them to a shedding frog, but I’m not 100% sure.

My horses feet definitely do not look like your typical frog - smooth and “well defined”. The front of the frog, at the tip, on my mare is coming up on at least one of her feet. the rest of her frog has odd “flaked” spots. If I was cleaning out say to the left, there’s a little length where the frog is “flaking up”, but is not fully detached at each side. At the backside, there’s a crack almost, but it looks almost looks like a central sulcus inside a central sulcus if that makes sense? There’s spots where there’s like lines you can clean out inside the frog, all running vertical. I’ll definitely have to get pics tonight but wanted to know yalls thoughts. Farrier won’t be out until March, we’re on a schedule and he’s hours away. I don’t think it’s serious enough for him anyways, it’s not affecting my horses in any way.

I don’t believe it’s thrush, and they’ve been treated for it a few times, but I’m not ruling it out. I can’t find comparison pics on google

[BoyleHeightsKid]

If it’s punky and stinky I would treat for thrush, but if not I wouldn’t worry about it unless there are flaps that will harbor bacteria. A healthy frog that’s well calloused and shedding a bit isn’t pretty.

Check out Pete Ramey’s site HoofRehab
http://www.hoofrehab.com/FrogTrim.html

[HungarianHippo]

My farrier was out on Saturday and said most his clients are shedding frogs. If it’s not stinky I would just watch and wait.

[Scribbler]

Ditto. If it doesn’t stink its not a problem. I’ve seen people go ballistic over treating imaginary thrush and create hoof problems.

When I’ve had my barefoot mare in hoof boots fairly consistently she doesn’t get as much chance to shed frog and sole. I have done things like make sure she gets a good gallop in the sand pen, and that debrades things nicely.

Changes in weather can also prompt retained sole or frog to start shedding off.

[TooMuchRebel]

@BoyleHeightsKid

If it’s punky and stinky I would treat for thrush, but if not I wouldn’t worry about it unless there are flaps that will harbor bacteria. A healthy frog that’s well calloused and shedding a bit isn’t pretty.

Check out Pete Ramey’s site HoofRehab
http://www.hoofrehab.com/FrogTrim.html

Yeah it’s not thrushy smelling but the flaps worry me. Would it be a problem to shave them off? Just what needs to be shaved to prevent bacteria growth, it’s getting pretty muddy out here again. I do try and clean them out every day though. I flush it with ACV once a week.

[JB]

The “flap” at the tip/apex of the frog is overgrown frog. It should be trimmed back each trim so not only is debris not getting trapped under there, but removing it to see the true apex - where the frog truly joins the sole - is one marker to determine where the breakover of the toe is supposed to be. One reason, IME, that may farriers/trimmers let toes get too long is they trim to the visible frog top, not the true apex.

Frogs do shed. When things are wet like the entire East Coast for the last 5 months, they don’t get as much engagement with firm ground and do degrade a bit in a lot of cases. So the devil is in the details as to how exactly it looks. Shedding is one thing. But diseased is another.

[BoyleHeightsKid]

@TooMuchRebel

Yeah it’s not thrushy smelling but the flaps worry me. Would it be a problem to shave them off? Just what needs to be shaved to prevent bacteria growth, it’s getting pretty muddy out here again. I do try and clean them out every day though. I flush it with ACV once a week.

You can take the flaps that are coming off, but I would not trim anything off the frog. Most times what needs to come off will shed on it’s own. There are special circumstances at times, but this is the most I would do.

[BoyleHeightsKid]

If you get a chance get us a picture.

[IPEsq]

Here, this happens a lot when it’s snowy in particular. Ground goes through a lot of wet/frozen cycles or is wet with snow and frozen underneath. The frog softens and as they move on the harder ground, the tip of the frog can catch and peel back. Especially if they do some yeehaw moves and slide. It may or may not be “shedding” frog (if the ground conditions were not the same, frog might not be shedding, and when the foot dries, the flaps may also dry and harden. But, it would not be harmful generally to just cut off the flaps.

[TooMuchRebel]

Sorry ya’ll! Had trouble getting/uploading pics. The last two are the same foot

http://i67.tinypic.com/2wcl4jq.jpg

http://i67.tinypic.com/igcc8z.jpg

http://i63.tinypic.com/21j5esm.jpg

http://i68.tinypic.com/2pret.jpg

http://i66.tinypic.com/2z8u7ms.jpg

[TooMuchRebel]

@BoyleHeightsKid

You can take the flaps that are coming off, but I would not trim anything off the frog. Most times what needs to come off will shed on it’s own. There are special circumstances at times, but this is the most I would do.

Yeah I’ve never been a fan of trimming a frog. I also am not a fan of treating thrush haha! Thanks

[JB]

How long since the last trim? The overall shape of the feet are pretty good, but the heels and bars suggest they haven’t been trimmed in a cycle or so. That one foot with the hoof pick shows a frog that is not healthy

The first foot looks the best.

Is the last foot (which I think is the last 2 pictures) an upright/clubbier foot? The heels on that one are a bit contracted, and look tall, but they heels also look a little underrun. It’s hard to tell for sure given the angle of the picture.

All frogs are lacking the nice “thumb print in clay” look at the back. They all have some degree of cracking, and that last foot looks the worst. This suggests long-term improper trimming of the heels which has allowed some cracks in the heel of the frog, which has possibly (and likely on that last foot) lead to some thrush.

As for that section you are sticking the hoof pick under, I would trim that off. It’s serving no purpose other than to potentially get caught on something, and trap debris. I would definitely start treating that foot for thrush, pack that crack with Tomorrow (cow mastitis ointment) and stuff with cotton.

If you want some better critiquing of the trimming, we’d need pictures like here
http://www.all-natural-horse-care.com/good-hoof-photos.html

[TooMuchRebel]

@JB

How long since the last trim? The overall shape of the feet are pretty good, but the heels and bars suggest they haven’t been trimmed in a cycle or so. That one foot with the hoof pick shows a frog that is not healthy

The first foot looks the best.

Is the last foot (which I think is the last 2 pictures) an upright/clubbier foot? The heels on that one are a bit contracted, and look tall, but they heels also look a little underrun. It’s hard to tell for sure given the angle of the picture.

All frogs are lacking the nice “thumb print in clay” look at the back. They all have some degree of cracking, and that last foot looks the worst. This suggests long-term improper trimming of the heels which has allowed some cracks in the heel of the frog, which has possibly (and likely on that last foot) lead to some thrush.

As for that section you are sticking the hoof pick under, I would trim that off. It’s serving no purpose other than to potentially get caught on something, and trap debris. I would definitely start treating that foot for thrush, pack that crack with Tomorrow (cow mastitis ointment) and stuff with cotton.

If you want some better critiquing of the trimming, we’d need pictures like here
http://www.all-natural-horse-care.com/good-hoof-photos.html

The last time they were trimmed was December I believe. We did skip our last trim in January with this mare because her feet still looked like they were just trimmed. Of course, I did still have him look them over. We also just switched farriers about 2 trims ago.

None of her feet are clubbed, but we did usually struggle with some underrun heel. I’m hoping we can get it fixed with this newer farrier.
To trim it, would just a hoof knife clip it off alright? I didn’t worry too much about the photos I just needed pics of the frog.

Thank you!

[JB]

I would say these are feet which really are due for a trim, so hopefully that is scheduled soon. If the visit was in early Jan, I can understand them looking like they were fine. If it was later in Jan, then based on these pics, they should have been trimmed, IMHO. Those bars are tall and some are starting to lay over and curve. Just some things to consider

And yes, hoof knife, even scissors if you don’t have a knife, will work

[BoyleHeightsKid]

Based on the way those frogs look I would treat for thrush… what we can see on the outside is only a tiny minuscule of what’s going on in there. And I would schedule a trim and bring your concerns to the trimmer.

[TooMuchRebel]

@JB

I would say these are feet which really are due for a trim, so hopefully that is scheduled soon. If the visit was in early Jan, I can understand them looking like they were fine. If it was later in Jan, then based on these pics, they should have been trimmed, IMHO. Those bars are tall and some are starting to lay over and curve. Just some things to consider

And yes, hoof knife, even scissors if you don’t have a knife, will work

Yeah they looked impeccable when the farrier came. About a week later they started growing out. I don’t know if I can get him out any earlier, he lives over 3 hours away and comes on a schedule for everyone in my area. I have an old farrier I could call but by the time that guy would make it out, it’d be on our other schedule! (hence why I got rid of him)

[TooMuchRebel]

Thank ya’ll!