Question here. If not going back with her, didn’t she just get a release and effectively teach herself to do it?
Apologies if that’s a stupid question - I’ve just always been taught to follow them so the “evasion” doesn’t work, then use leg to get them out, adjust hand position as needed to make the right answer clear if “stuck” in the curl.
Thank you to everyone who commented, even with dissenting opinions etc. That’s what makes horses so fun is that each one will respond so differently to a training method.
You guys have given me a lot more tools and ideas. I’m going to play around with them and find the one that works best. I’ll also do my best to get some good video clips tomorrow so you all can tear me apart. I can take it. 
This mare is easily the most talented one I’ve ever owned, she makes me look better than I am. 
That’s likely a strength issue so with young horses like this the trick I find to show them the connection is to make a transition before they lose balance or get strung out. Lots of gait to gait transitions now so that the balance resets she’s probably not strong enough to make a lot of in-gait transitions.
Not a stupid question at all. The timing of your leg (quick) and quietness of your hand is what will teach her to seek the contact as the happier place to be. Not allowing your contact to change (decrease to nothing) when she curls can teach her to curl even worse as she looks for a place to hide from your aids/contact. If you teach her that there is no ‘handshake’ or communication when she curls and that there is a pleasant ‘handshake’ and communication when she opens back up to meet your leg aids, you will be further ahead in the long run.
Think of your hands as elastic side reins for longeing. When the horse is stretching forward to them there are choices and the horse will make the choice that is most comfortable within the limited stretch of the side reins. When they curl behind, they need a reminder from voice or longe whip to get their engine back to work (or a short reminder followed by a break or end of work if they are tired/not fit enough yet). Horses become a lot more consistent a lot quicker with that sort of cut and dried work than with somewhat unclear rules. And, as with work under saddle, as the horse strengthens over time, the neck will rise from correct transition work, not because you used your hands to put them there.
Ooh, I have “lots” of experience with the curl up types!! I will try to explain but probably not well: A lot of it comes from understanding that different leg aids mean different things. So, yes, leg on means forward, but we can als “fluff” with the leg or the spur, which basically means “come up.” It’s meant to be a little annoying— when the horse comes behind the hand, “fluff” until the horse comes back up. You can also think of opening the outside rein to keep the contact when she ducks behind, so the outside rein never pulls back but also can’t be avoided by her coming back. Arthur Kottas likes to say that the outside rein controls the height and length of neck. If the horse won’t stretch without curling, then the rein is shorter with the goal of lengthening the neck before we ask for the horse to be really supple in the poll. Think little kids tottering around on dinky ponies. Then when we are consistent in the contact here, we can lengthen the rein and expect the horse to follow.
I agree that you need to be more vertical in your position. Stare at the ceiling in your work, especially the transitions. When you can balance correctly on your core, your horse starts to balance on your core too. I think both of you need more strength (only from seeing one photo, so take w a grain of salt).
Update: A ton better last night, I just needed to really chase her out to my hands with conviction. Read: a ton more leg.
I’m uploading a video now, I’ll post it shortly.
I have a very loooonngggg Hanoverian mare who is coming into work with very long neck. I do not work in the each gate super long and give ample breaks. if she is starting to fatigue and fall behind and curl, I lift a bit with the outside rein until she is correct for a few seconds then come back down to walk to give her a break. I have done this over several weeks and it is now paying off as she is getting stronger without feeling anxious about working out and she feels like she is doing a wonderful job
Ok video time! I have thick skin, don’t worry about offending me. This ride was pretty decent, for her. The curling was happening way more at the walk than the trot, and with some determined “get out from there” leg, she would come out of it with a little bit of a huff.
Looking good! Are you familiar with the suppling aid?
I would imagine yes, but explain it to me anyways.
to my eye, your post is faster than her leg
From watching this and particularly the trot-walk transitions - you need more of those, and my opinion would be that they need to be more forward to the downward, if you will, and less backward from the hand. She is learning in that transition to set the neck against the bit which is going to make your work much harder if she persists in that versus gaining the strength to make a transition through and round.
She seems pleasant and smart, I doubt this will take you a long time to get through. But always make sure the transitions are making progress because they will be your tool to develop everything else in the future.
Yes, she is fussing and unhappy to hold contact. I only watched the first bit of the video.
I would suggest working on keeping your hands still. Right now your hands are bobbing up and down at the trot. They should be steady and not move with your torso.
It is hard to teach contact to a horse when the rider does not have independent hands. The horse can’t maintain steady contact with a bouncing hand.
That was a moment in time, she’s actually reasonably steady in the contact later in the video. I can do better at smoothing my hands, though.
Can you elaborate more on what you see that makes you say that?
I try to make them forward, but it is definitely a work in progress. No where near where I want them to be.
ok, please understand that i’m NOT a dressage person. So take my comments with a grain of salt…
i watched your whole video finally. I’d say, in a nutshell, that it would be a good thing if you could find a way to connect with your horse. To move with her to be a part of her, to communicate throughout your whole body and allow her to talk to you too. Refine your movements to meld with hers.
What i go for with my mounts is that thing of where we two become one and she is my lower half. To be as one. (now…this is how weird i am…but i actually envision my spine connecting to my horses spine, my legs part of her ribs.)
like dancing to the rhythm of her song. The beat.
A little help I have found with horses who want to come against the hand in the transitions is to give them a series of quick half halts, one, two, and then hold on the third to make the downward and release when she makes the transition.
It lets them know something is coming, gets a little more attention, and then you clearly make the transition while adding leg. This can make it clearer to a young horse that they can still go forward into the half half to find the connection.
Also, your posting is fine. I don’t see anything wrong with your rhythm, though you might want to be aware of getting stiff in the downwards versus sitting down into her and giving her some seat.
You’re doing well for this stage of her training. You will both be FINE!
Be careful with your down transitions though. She is hollowing her back and crashing down rather than maintaining balance through the down transitions. Take your time with the down transitions and don’t be afraid to abort them. Crappy down transitions can very quickly become a bad habit for both rider and horse. The longer they occur, the harder they are to fix.
So, preparing for a down transition at this stage, the leg increases a little as you really concentrate on maintaining your position and slowing your posting down. Concentrate on every step. If you feel even one step of hollowing, abort the transition by riding forward again in the trot to re-establish better balance and then try again. Repeat until you get a decent transition. If it takes a dozen times, it takes a dozen times. Break that habit and teach her that a transition is just a transition and not a slouch into a walk break by the easiest means possible.
Never, ever throw away a transition.
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