Thank you for the kind comments, I’m learning so much from everyone here.
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Of course there’s always things to work on and improve. But I certainly wouldn’t worry about how she’s going low or behind. In my opinion it is very very normal for her stage. Yes certainly try to encourage her to not do it I’m just saying don’t worry yourself over it. You are good rider doing great with your horse. You guys will only improve every time, I think.
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Oh, I can be super guilty of a good “chicken wing” from time to time, but I thought it was more contained to jumping. I’ll try to envision my elbows against my sides.
For hands together, it’s my own absent mindedness. I know what to do, and how much better it feels, it just goes out the window when I am not directly focused on it.
Thanks for the tips!
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What about this one ?? It explains also the Reitbommel. Maybe this could give you a little more stability for now… a strap adjusted to the front of your saddle will work too… https://youtu.be/sSGevyVeREg
I don’t have this gadget, but I admit if my mare tries to pull the reins out of my hands I do grab my saddle strap and use my legs, because this way I don’t pull backwards with my hands… and she doesn’t win 
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I don’t expect a response to the first two, really. It’s a squeeze with the outside rein to say “hey, I’m up here, and I’m about to ask you to do something” it gives the horse a moment to process and prepare to be attentive, which some of them need, especially young horses who get a bit spacey sometimes. Then the third I hold the squeeze to close the hand, push the horse to my closed hand with my seat, and sit down for the “whoa.” I release the rein in the moment of the transition so the neck can come down and through as the hind leg makes the large step to walk (in this case).
If you’re not giving her anything up front in the transition that might be why you’re getting that response. You don’t have to hold her up, but you do need to be there at the end of the reins and transitions teach the half-halt. You could try a little counterflexion in the transition to put the neck in front of the shoulders and fix the balance if you’re finding that she’s not being attentive, it might be because she’s out of balance and falls on her forehand a bit in order to pull through the transition.
Really, though, I think it’s not bad for where it is. She’s 4, the transition doesn’t need to be correct and immediate. It may take her a few steps to get through “mom asked me something, what was I supposed to do with that? oh ok, stop, but she bumped me with the leg, so maybe not really stop, no ok stop” the 4 year old processing speed can be slow.
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Those look really cool, I bet I can make them.
Maybe I just don’t know what I’m looking at or for, but the first clip where they’re really zoomed in on the hands, those hands looked super noisy to me. The kid on the pony, not a good example. 
The boy’s hands looked quiet, but almost rigidly so. It also looked to me that his lower leg was far in front of him, pitching his balance back.
Note that I’m not trying to be critical, I just want to see the whole picture of someone with super quiet hands so I can try and see what I’m missing. What do super quiet hands with a perfect seat look like at the posting trot? I think I can remember some really nice riders from those young stallion auctions/showings, but I can never find those videos when I am looking for them.
It is not easy to be 100 % focused all the time, so many times my trainer is yelling at me to do something which I thought I was doing perfectly…
. I think riding is not easy but it’s so rewarding once the horse gets more supple and knows what you want and also knows that she has to do it!!!
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I agree with you about the first rider, I didn’t like that her hands went back when she started to trot… IMO not a good example… But the kid on the pony was a total beginner who was supposed to get at least some stability with this gadget… and the boy was shown first without and then with the gadget… to show the difference…
I would simply try it and go from there. Sometimes playing around with different things is widening your Horizont and I am not saying ride with it all the time, I would use it strategically in order to achieve specific things like keeping her from pulling you out of balance or to keep your hands quiet…
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Re: the Charlotte video.
When her hands move, they move backwards. They don’t bob up and down to follow her torso. She is doing a lot of half halts, very strong contact on a forward horse that is further along in his training. She has very busy hands here.
CD can do this because she has control over what her hands do. They can move forward or back, and doubtless up or out if neefed in the moment indendent of what her torso is doing.
I’m not saying don’t give rein aids! I’m saying rein aids and contact wont work until your hands are independent of your torso. This means make your arms independent. Loosen your shoulders and drop your elbows to your sides and then when your torso rises you open your elbows very slightly so you lower your hands relative to your body. I have never found hooking a finger on anything to be useful because it makes you tilt forward and it also encourages stiffness. Just think lower the hand when you rise in post.
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I learned to post in hunter land and so we were taught up down up down.
A better way is to allow the horses motion to move you up and forward, and down and back.
If you only move “up” but dont allow your hips to move forward then you get a little out of sync.
- Rein length is about context. It depends on the skill level of the horse and to a certain extent the conformation of the horse and the length of the riders arms.
I used to think that I was supposed to shorten my reins and put my hands in a certain position and keep them there always. But I never had great contact because I tried to do the correct things but I had no feel.
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Got it, thanks!
She is exceptionally ditzy, so consider her processor speed to be extra slow. 
When I was first riding her about a year ago, I had to jazz her up quite a bit to get response to my leg. You could school horse kick her and she wouldn’t care. So, we spent a lot of time with my reins in one hand with a handful of mane playing the “leg, smack” game, with me being very careful to never catch her in the mouth no matter what gait we ultimately ended up in. She caught on really fast to that.
Thanks for your tips, I appreciate it!
Can I just say, this thread has been really educational. Thanks for being willing to share @endlessclimb . Keep up the good work!
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If she will blow off a transition that you reinforce with your voice, it’s time to put her on the longe and install really, really good voice commands. Be sure she is wearing properly adjusted side reins so it is harder for her to brace her neck and hollow her back. Without your weight on her, you can really get a good transition cue installed where she has nothing to brace on except herself. You may cackle just a little and then giggle gleefully when she goes, “WHU? Oh, ok.”
Once your voice commands are fully installed on the longe, you use them under saddle to help her understand BEFORE she gets a chance to brace against you or you against her.
If you make an oops and she blows through you anyway, you pull out your voice command for halt (which will be instantaneous if not perfect) and then after a deep breath, you carry on again in trot and then ask again for your walk transition. The somewhat sudden whoa is not meant as a punishment, but as a miniature time out. Oops, lost our balance, let’s get it together and try it again.
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She has pretty good voice commands on the lunge. They could be sharper. The whoa command is pretty stinking sharp already, so I can use that as my backup, then carry on and try the transition again.
Thanks for the tips!
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I did not say it was unfair if the horse is being naughty. I said it was unfair if you have taught the horse to do something. It does exactly that and you reprimand it for doing it. It is mentally unfair and training is not just about the physical training of a horse.
The horse has to trust you. It is not going to trust if it is trying it’s hardest for you, thinks it is doing the right thing and then it is reprimanded.
It is not the horse’s fault if the rider does not know that they have asked for something they do not know they have asked for.
Not hanging on the head can be good. Not hanging on the head can be bad. If the timing is incorrect you teach the opposite of what you want. They learn with the release of pressure. Not hanging on the head is release of pressure. Use it wisely.
This is true with every aspect of horsemanship. Get the timing right, a horse that comes when you call, get the timing wrong you get a horse that will never come near you.
As others have said the hands are not independent yet. Saying look at the horizon was to help with the transition from Hunter to dressage position. Another way to say it is, look up and sit on your butt. Just thinking the one or two things but it will change the body position so much.
Think of the hands being a pair, however they work independently. The inside can go forward to give and reward ‘or prove’ while the outside stays still and works with the inside leg.
The height depends on the training of the horse. They are lower for long and low and higher for collected. You want the straight line to the bit. That changes with each horse, their level of training and what you are asking for.
Think more about not spilling your coffee.
Bring lunged without reins will help but not if the rider is injured and sore as stated.
Closing the thigh I liked to read about. Add to that. Close the thigh to slow. Open the thigh to go, in all gaits. She should feel like she is ready to coil like a spring and ready to go. Trot to walk ask for slow and then ask for halt on the third step.
This rider will go far, she is asking questions, opening her mind and listening without getting snarky to those wanting to help.
With that attitude she will go ahead in leaps and bounds and any horse she rides will go with along with her.
That is because the mental for the rider is just as important as the mental for the horse.
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Thanks for the thoughtful response, I really appreciate it. I like the “3 steps” idea, it’s always a little unclear to me how much of a window to give a green horse. I likely give too long of a window waiting for a response, justifying it in my mind that ‘she’s so young yet’. But when really, if you don’t get it right to start, it’s going to have to be undone later.
Good news is she has been very very lightly ridden thus far, so not much to undo.
I will add that training a horse I use a lot of voice commands and I can not tell you how much she will work her heart out to hear the words good girl.
So I mount and stand still at the mounting block. This will help when at a show, standing still 5 minutes at home might mean 30 seconds at a show but that gives you time to mount safely … you hope.
I tap along both sides with the dressage whip. It is okay to be touched by other things when mounted.
I click, they understand from leading that click means walk. Just one soft click between you and the horse, nobody else while the walk aid is added.
I close the thighs and say slow. I release the thighs and say quick, you start with slow always first. Each time you say quick they go forward more than last time. You want to feel the pull forward for 3 strides.
They know the difference between saying quick and trot on. I say trot on 3 times before I say and ask for canter. This sets them up for success.
This changes with how hot the horse is. If hot and taking trot on as meaning canter you don’t use that any more.
And when they do what you want let them know. Good Girl. Scritch with the handle of the whip along her neck. Give the inside rein. DO NOT PAT. It reverberates around the brain.
Enjoy your partnership with her.
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My experience with the one-two-three method is that horses catch on very quickly to the timing and by 3 they are attentive and ready to say yes mom what would you like now? It’s a “fair” amount of time. Even my upper level horse gets this amount of time and it’s on me as a rider to prepare whatever in enough time to give him his little heads up first.
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are you able to replay your video slo-mo?
if you’re able to replay your video slo-mo, go really slow and zero in on your thigh and her shoulder. That way you don’t have to be derailed by your rear or her legs/feet. You can see if you rise and fall in sync with her motion… I can’t replay it slow without downloading it to my laptop or i’d do it just to see if my eyes were right or not. To me, you are posting faster than she is trotting. I’ll deliberately slow my horse’s trot with my posting, but i rarely speed a trot by posting faster …because it just doesn’t work.
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