Horse goosey about shafts?

[butlerfamilyzoo]

Anyone had a problem with a horse/pony being really goosey about the shafts? Even if you’ve done tons of ground work, puling a tire, worked with PVC poles and letting them slide out of the tugs and thump on the ground, all of that they are cool with, but the actual shafts of the cart making them goosey when they touch them?

I have a really low key pony that i’ve done tons of work with over the winter, both riding and ground driving. But i’ve spent a week straight of pulling the cart up to her and just letting it touch and rub on her and having her shake and bolt a few feet and even throw in a rear… Yet, remove the cart and she’s back to completely normal… Kinda scratching my head at the moment.

[goodhors]

Does she wear blankets? Is she ticklish about other things?

You might try long lining her in a full blanket a few times, to allow rubbing all over, see if that helps. We also do “sacking out” where horse has to stand still while you flop a towel around and then start touching horse with the flopping towel. All is to be quiet, gentle, horse praised for standing still. You want her to the point that towel can be flipped to touch her anyplace with no reaction, up under belly, over the head/neck, open wide or narrow, legs and rump, while she stands on loose line. Saddle blanket flipping on her after towel is fine. Your arms get tired throwing it around! Weight is different than towels, but should be quietly accepted. Towels are not shafts, but help horse quietly accept the “unexpected” touches that can happen, NOT to kick or react to SURPRISE touches.

After the sacking time is a nothing, try just doing shaft type item dragging as she long lines. A helper can drag the item out front to chase, then along outside her at first, being careful not to get kicked. She is in an open bridle, can SEE everything. Do one side at a time with easily (helper) released or VERY breakable string. I always start with dragging on horse outer side of the circle. You just keep putting it on her over and over if she jumps away and breaks string. Dragged item should be rather long, flexible. Trimmed saplings are what we use because they are free out of the woods we have. I don’t recommend PVC pipe, it can shatter, plus the echo of dragging noise is right beside the head, adding MORE things for her to deal with than she needs at one time.

You will have to see how she reacts, first to the blanket tickles, sacking, then dragging of only one item. She MAY not like it enough to tell you strongly she WON’T like driving. She may get over it. Time will tell, with a number of works. 1-2 times would probably not be enough “try it” for me to decide her future.

[MunchingonHay]

When I have started a pony or horse to driving I have harnessed said pony up, I then mock hitch the pony (pretend to attach everything all the while having someone hold the shafts) then we walk on. Me ground driving pony and a helper holding the shafts. Then helper can “bump” the shafts against the sides of the pony and if needed the cart can ‘drop away’ ( helper pushes cart out from behind pony) or you can just work though it. I am a work though it kind of person.

Ditto what Goodhorse says about the saplings/pvc pipes you can achieve the same thing without risking your cart to kicks.

[butlerfamilyzoo]

Yep, she wears blankets, she ground drives/long lines in full harness with the traces through the breeching ring and hanging down flapping at her legs even! I can take a plastic bag all over her, havent tried a towel but i dont see it would be an issue. The only thing she HATES is having her udders touched. We’ve drug the PVC poles, i dont really have any good saplings around, everything is a 40’ pine tree… If a limb falls, it’s rotted and not gonna hold up to be drug. But she’s drug tires, and she’s not bad about sounds and noises…

Last night and tonight i did the “mock hitch” after i got her to stand quietly while i slid the shafts up and down her hips and sides. The shafts on this cart are REAL wide, as in, thank God it’s marathon shafts and i can rotate the suckers in all the way to fit her… I’ve adjusted it to balance great for her, but i swear when they thought pony size they thought fat happy hafflinger… She got over the jumpiness both nights and tonight at the end of the mock hitch, i actually hitched. Maybe too soon, but she was being so quiet, i thought, well heck, i’m here, my helpers here, she’s quiet, lets give it a go.

5min hitched we walked to the left first, flinched and did a small bolt forward when she touched the outside shaft the first time but then walked on quietly. Changed direction (i was just doing laps around the field, no tight turns, didnt want to fry her brain by laying a shaft on her and keeping it there just yet…) and to the right she kinda had a melt down. We had the little bolts, 2 rears, and then stopped frozen and shaking. I talked to her and calmed her down, got her to walk a few calm steps and a nice halt and we un-hitched.

I dont know if the cart shafts are more “solid” feeling than the PVC i had been using, or if they are cold? It’s a metal cart. I’m not going to throw in the towel, but if you’ve got more ideas to throw out there, i’m game! It’s a pretty quiet cart, she doesnt seem to mind the noise of it when walking next to it or around it, etc…

I’m blessed that i really do trust this mare, and she’s pretty trusting in me, the little bolts were VERY quickly, as in 3-4 strides max, brought back to a walk and she would quiet and listen. She gets worked 4-5 days a week since i got her mid-Oct. So i feel i really know her well at this point, and miraculously have kept unbelievably calm and cool about her reactions the past week. Which has helped a LOT. If this were my cob mare, i would have tossed in the towel day one! I know her attitude of, if it get’s too rough, the tough get going and be dammed who’s in my way! This little pony is more the type of, ok, i’ll try if you say so, and i’ll wait for you to save me, and i’ll do everything to try not to kill you either… If any of that makes sense. So frankly, i’m surprised we are having reactions like this, but at least glad that she’s got a good brain in there to come back to quiet so quickly even if it really upsets her.

I hope she’ll be a driving pony one of these days. I’ve got plenty of time to give her. We’ll keep trying.

[MunchingonHay]

She will get it, and it will be wonderful !!!

[phoebetrainer]

I’m starting a new pony at the moment too. I’m starting him, having given up on another. Other pony, who was super nice looking, black with four white socks and a blaze has been working up to having a cart for more than a year. He spooked at long lining - we got over that. He spooked at traces or anything around his legs. We worked long and slow on that and he got over it. He spooked at bamboo poles. Lots of work and he got over that. We got him towing a tyre. Spooked heaps, but got over it. Each time he had a break, he’d be back to the spookiness again. All the time he was getting quicker and quicker to stop and think and then calm down. He first reaction was to bolt and then if I held him back, little rears.

Then I started working with the new pony. He’s had far, far less handling than the black pony. He was actually feral and ungelded 18 months ago. He’s come a long way. In three days he was at the same stage as the black pony. We hitched him and drove him for the first time on Tuesday afternoon and then again this afternoon. No problems. Relaxed and happy and coping with everything that happened: dogs running around, other horses cantering up to watch, driving the cart over stiff stalks which clatter on the underside.

I just can’t imagine the black pony ever being as relaxed about all of this as the youngster is. I think that if I had help all the time I would get him there, but he’d never be a fun drive or a novice drive and that is what I want.

I have no idea what I am going to do with the black pony, but I have a neat little chesnut who has taken to riding and driving like a duck to water. :yes::winkgrin:

Good luck with your pony. It doesn’t sound as if she is as spooky as my one, but for me its much more scary with a spooky pony driving than riding.

[buck22]

I had something similar with my Morgan. The jog cart shafts were lively and wiggly as compared to pvc and saplings being drug and he got very goosey.

The first thing I would do is, just in a halter and lead rope, pretend to put him to but not actually as he’s got no harness on. I’d hold up the shaft of my jog cart and then, standing at his shoulder, ask him to walk on… shafts around him, me holding it up as we walked. He’d feel the wiggly bump and shoot forward out of the shafts, circle around me (me holding onto the lead rope, still walking calmy with the jog cart). I’d just keep walking, do our “lap” that I’d set out as a repetitive route. Come to the end and “re hitch” and do it again. It didn’t take more than a few minutes for him to realize that he was over reacting and didn’t feel the need to burst out of the shafts. The same repetitive route we took really helped a lot too, we just wore a path in the dirt taking the same oval over and over and over, stopping at the same place to hitch/unhitch/reward. I used anticipation to my advantage for this.

I’m a believer in if you let a horse leave they will learn on their own to stay.

Then when ready to really drive with harness and blinkers, what I would do is pat him a lot quite strongly and rub him good and firm before and as I hitched him, and keep having my helper pat and rub him and loudly tell him how good he is as I hitched. Sort of be louder with praise and good things than the wiggly shafts are goosey and spooky.

Then we’d walk off, me driving, friend or friends clipped in (halter over bridle, long lines with friends) and they’d keep patting him strongly and loudly telling him what a good boy he was. Etc.

Now, take this advice with a huge grain of salt, I have likely desensitized my horse too much. I pat my horse a lot, all over the place, while he’s hitched. I’ll bump him with pails, let bags rattle on his legs, etc. Its nice when we’re in the woods, we can go through a bit of brush, snap twigs, have debris fall on us, etc., and he’s rock solid. However, he’s learned to become quite lazy and the whip isn’t the motivator it once was either :lol:

I took a driving class once with a really wonderful woman, and her amazing horse. I went to head her horse and patted him on the neck before I got to his face (as I do with my horse) and he really jumped. I was shocked and felt terrible. She told me to never pat a horse in harness… which I didn’t know. Her horse was very sensitive and very quick to comply, I can only dream my horse could ever be so quick and clever to drive.

In making my horse solid and able to fill in for my greeness, I’m pretty sure I dumbed down my horse, but on the flipside, we’ve survived me learning so far :lol:

Early in my life with horses, I spent a summer with a John Lyons trainer so my roots tend to be with desensitizing, breaking things down into very small parts, and conditioning through repetition. This comes back to haunt me sometimes as I tend to over desensitize which robs me of lightness and forward when I’m finally ready for it.

From what you mention, I’ll agree with Munching, I think your mare just needs some time and support and she’ll get past this.

[winfieldfarm]

Get a pair of broom stick handles (or pitch fork or whatever, just wooden handles) Start with one. Put it through the tug and through the ring of your breeching right where the breeching holdback hangs off it. If it’s not secure, I have a set that hubby drilled a small hole in the back half that I have a shooe string strung through. I can quick release tie the shoe string to the breeching ring. Sometime I have the breast collar on and the traces run through the same two spots, tugs and breeching. You are simulating the same position of the shafts but without anything hanging down behind the horse or toughing the ground.

Now long line. move out, trot, canter. Let that broom stick consistantly move against that horse until she is familiar with the movement and the contact. If she scoots, bolts, kicks, the shaft stays right with her. Do this in a very small controlled space to start if you really think this is going to blow her mind at first. Also have a second person with a lunge line at her head so if she really struggles at first, you can have second person control her with lunge line and you don’t have to bang her mouth trying to stop her. Then add the second one so she’s got one on each side.

Then you can have helpers walk along and gently lift and drop the broom sticks against her sides as she walks. This prep configuration allows her to jump and wiggle, bolt and balk without the danger of any poles getting wedged into the footing or her knocking over a person holding the shafts of a cart. YOu can even drive them close to the wall to rub, getting the horse okay with sudden unexpected wall contact. Circle the traces back through your breeching rings to make big bumpers on either side and she will tap those on the wall as she goes along. Makes for a perfect safe training situation to get a horse okay with inadvertenly rubbing the wall without the danger of it being the first time while they are hitched.

Broom stick handles have been a wonderful addition to my driving prep. Since I incorportated them into my prep, I have not had a horse be surprised by the shafts movement when they finally get officially hitched.

[butlerfamilyzoo]

BROOMSTICKS! That’s exactly what i need! THANK YOU! Great tip. I think this will help us a lot!

Buck- She’s really dumbed down, and i sympathize with the lack of response to a whip… This little pony so doesnt care anymore… The only time i can get a reaction if she gets lazy is to make the whip pop. One day, this pony will go to my son, so i dont mind a lot of this work, the duller i can make her, the better to some degree… I will say it frustrates the heck out of me when she starts to get a little tired or lazy and just poops out on me and nothing i can say or do will get her moving again. She’s been trail blazing under saddle and doesnt give a bit of care to being slapped with branches.

It’s just something about those darn shafts. But we’ll work on the broomsticks. Good idea about making the same repetitive path too when we go back to the cart.

Thanks guys. I feel like i have a little more direction today.

[Tamara_in_TN]

sometimes it just takes a header with a chain over their nose to tell them “no” you will not behave that way…esp if it is not something like the shafts sticking her shoulders

also are you working in blinders? if so,for the sake of instruction I’d take the blinders off and let her “see” what is poking or rubbing or touching her

Tamara

[butlerfamilyzoo]

We did some broomstick work tonight. Ok, a lot of broomstick work… Cause when i first brought it up to her she freaked out and i was 3ft away… I did this all in an open bridle, but the rest of her harness on, it took me 15min to touch her with the broomstick and not have her blow up. 25min in i was able to put the broomstick on one side, started her walking with it on the outside of our circle. She was unsure, but settled, it was her downward transition to walk or halt that blew her brain. I guess it made the breeching kinda bump her and that upset her. I got her carying it on both sides (just one broom stick tonight) and when i finished i was able to touch her all over with it and had quiet downward transitions. It was a long process, but i felt good about it in the end and she seemed to trust me about it. I also got a bit more heavier with my pats and patting her around much more and all over. A heavier pat elicited a bit of a startle, but by the end, she was back to her non-caring self again.

I think we are gonna stick with the one broomstick for another week in an open bridle, and then if she’s going solid with that, add the second one. When we are good there, we’ll go back to the driving bridle and see if things change. Interesting that the broomstick brought up such fear. I havent seen her afraid of much of anything since i got her except my husband. It makes me wonder… I dont know much about her past.