Horse has shivers and won't lie down to sleep - any advice?

[twostinkydogs]

I am half-leasing a horse with shivers. I’ve been watching him lately (not 24/7), and in thinking back over the last few months, I don’t know that I have ever seen him lie down to sleep in his stall or in the pasture and the staff haven’t either. Almost every time I massage his tender areas or groom him in the cross-ties, he falls asleep and his knees buckle, he seems to lack the locking mechanism. Recently, I was outside his stall and he literally just dropped and then jumped back up.

Given how frequently the buckling happens, I don’t think he is getting enough sleep. He also has pain somewhere in his hind end, so he may not lie down because it is painful to get back up. Is there anything I can do to help encourage him to sleep? Sedatives, pain meds? Massage him out in the field to see if he will lie down? Maybe in an empty arena with good footing? I think he is too big for me to try it in his stall.

Obviously he has bigger issues than lack of sleep, but that can’t help. I am limited because his owner seems unwilling to spend money to evaluate or treat his pain beyond monthly adequan injections and has declined my offers to pay half for a thorough vet check or bodywork.

[Scribbler]

If the horse is not going down to sleep he is either in pain or fears he can’t get up agsin. Or he has no place to sleep comfortably.

Sedatives won’t help. Horses do everything they can to stay upright when they are stoned, swaying like a drunk when they need an extra dose for dental work.

I’ve known a couple of older horses get sleep deprived in crusher dust paddocks.

My mare loves to nap and will lie down in the indoor and doze. But most horses aren’t really comfortable lying down with a person right there.

Honestly if he’s in that much pain should he he ridden?

[findeight]

This is a situation that needs actual, hands on vet examination more then internet advice from strangers for the sake of the horse whose well being always needs to come first in your journey with horses. Whatever is going on, horse does not sound either happy or healthy.

I feel for you, this is a bad situation since its not your horse so you cannot do a thing for him except bring your concern to the attention of its owner and trainer. You should be asking yourself if you want to continue paying to half lease as well as continue riding him despite your feeling something is wrong. If they cannot explain it to you and teach you but blow you off? You need to seek another program.

Need to caution you not to share your feelings with any barn mates or staff, only speak of your concerns with owner and/or trainer. Barn gossip can turn toxic and you could be invited to stay off the property if you spread your feelings about the horses health.

There is no way we can know whats going on with this horse, maybe nothing, maybe one of a number of possibilities, chief among them chronic, severe pain. Vet would simply do a basic physical and pull blood for lab testing. Thats not that expensive. Unfortunately, not your horse.

Best thing to do might be to rethink where you ride here. Its tough, I know.

[hybriseris]

Adequan isn’t meant to be given monthly. Some people do AFTER a loading dose but the company doesn’t recommend monthly maintenance. I second the opinions you’ve been given already unfortunately - unless the owner has interest in getting him looked at, I’d be concerned for your safety while riding if he’s increasingly exhausted, and his comfort.

[Scribbler]

Yes a horse showing narcolepsy from whatever cause is not safe to handle or ride. The shivers complicates things, it’s a wierd neurological thing not just basic arthritis hocks (which could also be present)

[findeight]

Any number of things from narcolepsy to anemia to chronic pain to a neurological issue like wobblers and EPM can often manifest this way. Most of these can be treated once diagnosed, none are safe to ride or even work around without involving a vet. But thats up to the owner to authorize.

OPs choice to pay to continue riding it anyway, try speaking to the owner or just find a program that treats its horses with more compassion and works with client riders to educate them in proper care and horsemanship.

[twostinkydogs]

@Scribbler

Honestly if he’s in that much pain should he he ridden?

At this point, I mainly just walk and trot him for 20 minutes 1-2X/week because unfortunately he is hunting/jumping 2-3X/week.

@findeight

You should be asking yourself if you want to continue paying to half lease as well as continue riding him despite your feeling something is wrong. I

I agree. He is increasingly uncomfortable so I am riding him less. I leased him hoping to improve my riding on a horse that is much different than mine. I think I am afraid of what he would be doing if I didn’t have him 3X/week, he is a really sweet horse. But I am starting to realize it doesn’t make sense.

@findeight

Need to caution you not to share your feelings with any barn mates or staff, only speak of your concerns with owner and/or trainer.

Good advice that is hard to follow. And probably another reason to terminate the lease. The situation is not one where I would be asked to leave. The BO is hoping the owner will leave.

I will need to give a month’s notice before ending the lease. I’d just like to try and make him comfortable while I have him. Even if it is just the opportunity to lie down and relax.

[Scribbler]

What is his stall bedding and paddock footing like? Can you take him into a soft dry paddock or arena and let him off the lead? Does he ever roll? You could give him a good grooming to relax then take him into a soft dry arena or paddock alone, let him loose, and watch what he does. Many horses will roll at the first opportunity.

If he gets down rolls gets up he is not physically limited from lying down

If he sniffs the ground circles starts to go down and then catches himself and stops, he’s got some pain stopping him from lying down.

If he rolls but struggles to get up again he has pain

It needs to be alone in a clean dry soft paddock or arena. Many barns don’t let you have a loose horse in the indoor. My mare will lie down, roll, nap indoors on the lead line, even with other horses around, but this is not normal behavior

Watching a horse in turnout at liberty can tell you a lot about them.

[poltroon]

Not every horse lies down very often. However, I do like to see evidence that a horse is rolling from time to time. If he ever has dirt on his side or topline then he’s lying down sometime. It won’t necessarily happen while you’re watching.

[hoopoe]

personally this is a situation I would walk away from. If the horse is not being thoughtfully managed and this disease is progressing, you need to look out for your safety.

It does not sound like a half lease is of value on a horse you only get to casually hack. If he is having check ligament impairment you have further potential danger.

You cannot change the owners management you can only change your involvement with the situation. It sounds like a no win.

[twostinkydogs]

@Scribbler

You could give him a good grooming to relax then take him into a soft dry arena or paddock alone, let him loose, and watch what he does. Many horses will roll at the first opportunity.

I can do this! I have access to an indoor with excellent footing and gates that can be closed. As long as I do it off hours and have a second person with me, my barn is totally fine with it.

I really appreciate all of the responses. I needed someone other than my husband to tell me I need to exit the situation, there is nothing I can do.

[NancyM]

I have owned a horse with similar issues to this one, and there is good advice here already for you. Humans are pretty much powerless to help a horse with this issue much, unfortunately, and since you do not own this horse, or the barn, you are even less able to attempt to help him. My horse used his very strong stall door to hang his head over to hold himself up while he slept. You will notice abrasions on the fronts of the ankles and on knees from collapsing while attempting to sleep. I tried applying stable bandages with figure 8 bandages over the knees to put some pressure on the fronts of the knees help to keep them from buckling, no data on how successful this may have been for him. Using the stall door took the weight of the horse, AND kept the knees from buckling entirely (knees would hit the stall door before complete collapse) before the horse could wake up. This is a half assed solution, and it is something that the horse thought up being aware of his problem, not me. But supplying this sort of stall door is something that a person can do, if they own the barn. My horse also used the stout log fence outside in this paddock for the same function… support while sleeping. I believe that eventually he may have fallen and broken a vertebra which resulted in euthanasia- but this was never diagnosed. And I have known another similar case who eventually fell and broke a leg. So, this is likely the future for this horse at some point. And there isn’t much anyone can do about this.

Walk away, and find a different horse to lease.

[BigMama1]

Having owned a horse with shivers and struggling to evaluate when he was in pain and when his condition posed a danger to himself and those handling him I will say only this. He was kindly and lovingly PTS long before he reached the point of falling on a regular basis. And my main regret is that I didn’t retire him sooner and didn’t euthanize him sooner.

This is a no-win situation. If you aren’t the owner, you have no control over how the horse is used or treated. Personally I would run, not walk away before you get injured.

[findeight]

OP, has the BO actually told you and/or other clients they “ want the owner gone and not you”? Really? Wonder what BO tells owner and other client about you…thats absolutely NOT a good thing. Not no way, not no how.

Besides gossiping about a client to another client being unprofessional and best and downright childish at worst, that idea BO wants you more then owner is a load of BS.

Owner provides a much larger percentage of BOs income with board and assorted other fees. Possibly including a commission for getting the horse half leased which will be kept a secret from you. You just are not financially as important to BO as owner. Unless BO has selling that poor horse to you in mind if and when owner leaves.

Watch your back here. People show you who they really are, open your eyes. This BO has no interest in whats best for horse or in clients best interest. I always feel bad for these horses but you can’t do a thing here but take your money, compassion and time to a better, honest, caring operation. And for heavens sake, dont buy a horse needing probably close to 1k in vet work and extended time off if not retirement or PTS.

[twostinkydogs]

@findeight

OP, has the BO actually told you and/or other clients they “ want the owner gone and not you”? Really? Wonder what BO tells owner and other client about you…thats absolutely NOT a good thing. Not no way, not no how.

I appreciate your concern and responses. You’ve made assumptions that are not true, not your fault given I gave limited information. I could clear them up, but I don’t want to share information that could make this any more recognizable than it already is as I originally intended to post this under an alter but forgot to sign out of my regular account. The only point I want to make absolutely clear is the BO has not gossiped with others or acted unprofessionally in any way.

[EssexFells]

Stop riding him, right now. Just because you have to give 30d notice doesn’t mean you have to ride him for that last month. Tell the BO and owner what you’ve observed and that the horse needs a vet, and then walk away from a barn where horses are allowed to go without desperately needed vet care.
You can find other options, even if it takes a while to find them.

[eightpondfarm]

i would say that the Number One rule of good horsemanship is concern for the horse’s welfare. You seem to be quite concerned and that is good. But it sure doesn’t sound to me like riding this horse at all and ESPECIALLY jumping him is fair to him. I feel sorry for that poor animal. I would never ride him again. I might be inclined to full lease him to keep anyone else from riding him, but then i know that is just burning money.