Horse hates shots - alternatives to IM joint treatments?

[LilyandBaron]

I have my horses at home, and my 18 year old mare has some stiffness in her hind leg. It’s barely noticeable but she just was NQR, and vet diagnosed it in the lameness exam. I opted to try Adequan, but my mare is NOT appreciative of shots. For vaccines, she always stiffens the neck and nods a lot, and I distract her with treats and manage it while the vet does the shots. As vet said, she’s not the worst out there.

But I am the only horse person at home - with mare acting up, I don’t want to worry about DH getting hurt trying to help. So I’ve been trying to get her to accept the shots and do it by myself. We got one in and I thought things would be easier after a relatively positive experience. Today was dose two, and she’s worse! Despite patience, fake jabs, treats, etc. I am having the vet out tomorrow to assist, but I’m not willing/able to pay for the vet to give all of the shots. Just not practical or economical.

So, yes, I know you can train horses to do better, but looking for various ideas since I’d like to address the problem sooner than later: twitch, blindfold (she gets agitated seeing the shot!), shots in the hind end, or alternatives to IM treatment that work? I am going to work with the vet, but I like getting inputs from COTH since quite often, some have been there/done that and can share their experiences.

[DinkyDonk]

Try clicker training if you haven’t given it a go yet; use a ball point pen and/or a small syringe with a slip tip to practice poking with. You can also try using a blinker hood so maresie can’t see that nasty needle thing (Big Dee’s sells them). You can also try Dormosedan to take the edge off her (vet RX required, oral sedative in gel form, goes under tongue or what I do (per my vet’s suggestion) is glove up and rub on upper gum area. Dose, and let horse sit in a stall somewhere quiet and just chill for half an hour/45 minutes. I have a hinny with a needle phobia/vet phobia, and Dormosedan is my best friend when hinny needs shots, blood pulls, etc…

[4horses]

I second the clicker training. Cross ties helped my mare. Now she’s much much better. Look into how much you are injecting in one spot. I believe high volume injections are more painful than low volume injections. My mare is great for vaccines but she hated Pentosan injections. Maybe they sting?

Another option is to place the horse backwards in a slant load trailer, place the divider up, and use the trailer as stocks.

[Abbie.S]

Honestly…I know you want something to manage things now, but you’d be better off not tricking your mare and just putting the time in to teach her to tolerate the shots. Tricking her is only likely to make her more anxious and anticipatory in the long run.

If you must take a short cut now, I’d lightly sedate her.

[LilyandBaron]

Vet came out today and got rest of dose in. Two people, chain on nose, but really not too awful with two. Vet discussed surprise vs. desensitize approach, opted to desensitize, and thankfully mare relaxed vice amp up. Treats from me as appropriate. Vet agreed mare is quick so I’ll be hauling to vet for shots unless/until mare gets used to shots. Just happy I aborted mission yesterday without creating a monster!

[wildlifer]

Another thing that makes a huge difference for my shot-hating gelding – I buy packs of tiny 22-ga needles. When I use those, he is just fine. The bigger default vet needles he resents. He is kind enough not to do anything dangerous, the most he has ever done was pull away from his Adequan shots, so I had to get another needles. But with the 22s, he stands still & rarely even flinches.

Worth a shot. Pun half-intended.

[DinkyDonk]

With my tricky hinny, the vet I now use snubs him up short with a lead wrapped around a barn beam, and we do a loop with another lead around near front leg to hold it up. I hold both leads thru the stall grates from the outside of the stall (not tied–can drop ropes to release hold/tension immediately) while vet does what needs to be done. Mr. Hinny, while not a happy camper, quits struggling and stands. So much better than watching 2 or 3 men (vet and assistant(s) jump on top of the poor animal and try to restrain him with brute manpower. Current vet thinks he may have been castrated with sedatives but no anesthesia…Hates needles and vets equally.

Has anyone dealing with an animal like this ever tried a Stabilizer? It’s a gizmo that came out in the 90’s, goes in their mouth and over their poll; applies pressure to nerves in the gum area… Seems a little wonky to me, so would never try one without talking to someone who’s actually used one with success. Nose twitch is not an option as one was used on him when he had a choke cleared 5 years ago; no vet’s been able to get one on him since.

[LilyandBaron]

I saw a farrier that was only paid in cash in CA use baling twine in the gum area like the Stabilizer you describe, and it did work with the horse in question (not mine). Mine really isn’t that scary, but vet knows she doesn’t like shots, and was taking advantage of my solo efforts. I imagine if we stay on Adequan long term, she’ll come around to where I can do it alone. Vet did mention the Dermosedan as an option, but I’m game with not having negative experiences so I’ll probably try it solo when I’m with the vet there so we can baby step our way up to it without her learning to fight. If I tried to do it alone now, she’d learn how to win! Thanks everyone! So frustrating when they use their size to fight our efforts to help them!

[candyappy]

@DinkyDonk

With my tricky hinny, the vet I now use snubs him up short with a lead wrapped around a barn beam, and we do a loop with another lead around near front leg to hold it up. I hold both leads thru the stall grates from the outside of the stall (not tied–can drop ropes to release hold/tension immediately) while vet does what needs to be done. Mr. Hinny, while not a happy camper, quits struggling and stands. So much better than watching 2 or 3 men (vet and assistant(s) jump on top of the poor animal and try to restrain him with brute manpower. Current vet thinks he may have been castrated with sedatives but no anesthesia…Hates needles and vets equally.

Things that work with mules don’t work as well horses. Mules( usually) have that built in sense of self preservation. Most horses will fight and panic.

Tying a horse up like that is not something I would not recommend to any horse owner.

[alibi_18]

@LilyandBaron

Vet came out today and got rest of dose in. Two people, chain on nose, but really not too awful with two. Vet discussed surprise vs. desensitize approach, opted to desensitize, and thankfully mare relaxed vice amp up. Treats from me as appropriate. Vet agreed mare is quick so I’ll be hauling to vet for shots unless/until mare gets used to shots. Just happy I aborted mission yesterday without creating a monster!

There are ways to desensitize correctly your horse to shots.

No surprising, no blind fold, no fake jab…

If you must use a twitch, practice it first, a few times, in a calm manner.

Putting a lead chain through the halter and up on the gum is as efficient. I have one that the chain is just the right length that it blocks.

But still, this need to be practiced in a calm set up a few times before being put to use.

The way I practice and do IM or ID shots is to pinch a good amount of skin in the neck (or on the bum), twist it and hold it for a few seconds. I do that everyday for a week, and then sparingly while I groom or tack up.

Then, when I need to do an injection, I just do this little routine but while I’m holding the skin, I quietly insert the needle in.

If the horse needs more, I add the nose twitch first, than I do the skin twitch and inject.

[Displaced_Yankee]

My horse (who I have owned since day one) is particularly sensitive to shots, mane pulling, his show braids touching his neck the wrong way, etc. :rolleyes:

It was easy enough to manage when he was small but after I watched a vet (who I don’t use any longer) wrestle with him for coggins and spings shots I have opted to twitch him, every time. After a few years, I can now give him IM shots without the twitch, by myself. I can actually do it in the pasture by myself (but with a halter and leadline). When I give them on my own I have found that a big, chewy horse treat helps distract them such as Stud Muffins or Nickerdoodles.

I will not, however, let my vets give him shots/draw blood without a twitch, as I have seen him strike and/or rear. While he has not exhibited this behavior in many years, I know it keeps the vet safe. Twitching is not traumatic. He gets cookies from the vet, I apply the twitch, he goes to where ever his mind goes, we draw blood/give immunizations, undo the twitch and more cookies! and scritches.

[beau159]

Some things you can consider about your method to help your mare.
–Put on a FRESH needle after you have filled up the syringe. When you inject the needle into the bottle to draw up the Adequan, it dulls it. Some horses are more sensitive than others when it comes to a dull needle.
–Make sure you alternate injection sites, such as alternating side of the neck or (if you are comfortable) going into the correct location on the hindquarters.
–I have always “pinched” my horse before giving a shot. I don’t remember who showed me this but it seems to help the horse “get ready” for the poke that is about to come if you pinch the skin near the injection site you are about to use right before you do it.
–Don’t sneak and don’t trick. Just do it. Horses seem to go about things better if you are upfront with them and prepare them for what’s coming. She may be surprised by the poke and doesn’t like the surprise.

Also, how is your mare with ground work in general?
Does she ever crowd your space?
Pull on the lead while you are leading her?
Push her shoulder into you?
Etc.

Sometimes, some short daily lessons on proper ground manners can go a long way when you are trying to get her to stand nicely to accept shots.

[4horses]

Find some really high value treats. A bland cookie does not compare to really yummy treats. My mare goes crazy for cinnamon apple muffins. I had some i took trail riding with me and she thought those were the best treats ever! Anything with cinnamon.

I’ve never tried twisting the skin. I was taught to pat the area hard enough for a slight sting, then inject.

[DinkyDonk]

@candyappy

Things that work with mules don’t work as well horses. Mules( usually) have that built in sense of self preservation. Most horses will fight and panic.

Tying a horse up like that is not something I would not recommend to any horse owner.

Please re-read…Hinny does NOT get tied up.

[LilyandBaron]

Good thread for lots of options. My main dilemma was wanting to do the shots sooner rather than later, and doing it solo. I had another horse on Adequan at home, no issues. This mare has always had a little anxiety about shots, but having a person to distract her while another gives the shot is enough to get it done. My timing of pinch, distract, shot, give treat as a solo artist was leaving her ample time to make life harder:). Options were stop shots, taking however long to train her; give up and try a different treatment; or, what I’m doing, work with vet to transition from two people to one, and worst case, we haul to vet regularly for shots. Vet isn’t too far away, thankfully. Mare is overall good citizen, and I may play with clicker with the vet to help that transition, but I’ve never done clicker training, so will have to read up on timing. Biggest thing is this is a good horse, but you can never rush training. I really think we’ll get there - just note to my self to do the pinch/syringe (no needle) routine on other horses so this isn’t a crisis in future horses!

[ChestnutArabianMare]

https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/0ba…237be0633c.pdf

I really recommend the method described in the link above as long as you have good timing. Basically, it involves using positive reinforcement (food) at each step of the injection process. It’s clicker training but the click is whatever verbal cue you choose. Example: pinch her neck lightly; if she stands still, immediately release the pinch, say “Good girl,” and give her a treat. If she moves, don’t release until she stands still. Then immediately release and give her a treat. Don’t move onto the next step until she’s comfortable with the current step.

I used this process for my needle-hating mare last year - she would throw a hissy fit, dance around, have mini-rears and generally make it impossible. Twitches, sedation, a chain and multiple people did not work.

Literally three 10 minute sessions cured her - I can now give her shots (IM and IV) with her leadline draped loosely over my arm and she stands like a rock without flinching. And she remembered it again this year for spring shots - a two minute refresher and she was good to go.

A bonus: this is also a good foundation to build upon for trick training if that’s something you’re interested in. We’ve added smiling and bowing to our repertoire so far. And no, she’s not nippy and she doesn’t bite.

I am certainly not a professional horse trainer, but it was an easy method to master. Maresy is extremely food-motivated, however, and learns remarkably fast.

[Marla_100]

just a tidbit about Adequan- an old vet I formerly used said he used Adequan on himself and it stung like the devil. I believe

he meant WHILE he was injecting it and AFTER also.

[candyappy]

[QUOTE=DinkyDonk;n10439556]
the vet I now use snubs him up short with a lead wrapped around a barn beam, and we do a loop with another lead around near front leg to hold it up.

I hold both leads thru the stall grates from the outside of the stall (not tied–can drop ropes to release hold/tension immediately) /QUOTE]

This is what I was referring to. I don’t know any horses who wouldn’t panic under that type of set up. Mules are just different. Maybe I see it differently than you are describing?

[candyappy]

@DinkyDonk

Please re-read…Hinny does NOT get tied up.

the vet I now use snubs him up short with a lead wrapped around a barn beam,

we do a loop with another lead around near front leg to hold it up. I hold both leads thru the stall grates from the outside of the stall (not tied–can drop ropes to release hold/tension immediately) while vet does what needs to be done.

^^^

This is what had me concerned as it sounds like the rope is not tied but wrapped around a beam which would hold the animal as if tied. If I am reading it wrong I apologize.

[4horses]

Yes, i also believe that it hurts, given the way my mare reacted to injections.