Horse horrified of spray

[Jumpingranch]

Hi!
I’m leasing a sweet little mare from a barn I lesson at. No huge problems, only issue/quirk owner told me is this horse will kill herself and everyone around her if you try and flyspray her and she’s crosstied.
Obviously I asked for more details because that’s extreme, and if you spray her ANYWHERE on her body, including down to her fetlocks, she will panic and last time they did it she flipped herself over in the crossties.
This is what the owner told me, they’ve worked with her daily since they bought her 8 months ago.
She can be sprayed with the hose no problem.
Flyspray on a rag/sponge is fine, gets a little twitchy but I almost think it’s because of how strong smelling the spray is and she’s expecting to be sprayed in the face.
Flyspray on solid stream is fine.
Non flyspray(detangler/moisturizers/ect) sprayed NOT FINE.
On a lead rope you essentially end up lunging her with a spray bottle, she will panic and run circles around you if she is sprayed. Nothing dangerous like running you over/bolting but they don’t want this done because they don’t want her to panic and start bolting on the lead.
Doesn’t like when the bottle is pointed at her. If tied she gets twitchy and snorty. Will leave if she’s loose and you show her a spray bottle.
Doesn’t care if you flyspray the horse tied next to her, will leave if she’s in the pasture and you’re flyspraying horses

Never realized how many products are spray based until now lol. It’s seems like genuine fear, with the heavy breathing and eye whites showing when a spray bottle is brought out. No biting/kicking, just tries to get away.
They’ve never seen any sort of skin reactions to anything on her, I was thinking maybe shes allergic to something in the flyspray and it hurts. Fly repellent lotion on her face causes no issues. Odd thing is she’s pinto and there’s a difference in hair height between bay areas and white areas? But not hives

Any tips, or experiences? She’s 21 so this could just be personality at this age lol. I take my spraybottle and just leave it across from her when I tack up and there’s no reaction, and she doesn’t react to seeing the flyspray bottles hanging on stalls. Sounds stupid but I was wondering about letting her see me get sprayed, if that would do anything. Not sure if it’s the noise, the sensation, the smells or all of the above. Not gonna try and train it out of her without talking to the owner, just thought it was strange on an otherwise bombproof horse

[GraceLikeRain]

I’d fill a spray bottle with water so you aren’t wasting product. I’d find the distance that’s under her threshold, even if that’s 20 feet away. You could do a positive reinforcement approach with treatments but you could also stop spraying when she looks at the bottle. It’s counter intuitive but you’re showing her that she’s controlling the spray with her attention which is super confident giving. Either approach when done with a lot of patience should build her confidence with the sound and appearance of the mist. I’ve also had a lot of success spraying the bottle out in front of me and having a horse follow at a distance. Following the scary is easier than having scary approach. It’s definitely a fixable issue but sensitivity to body language, a clear approach, and really good timing is important. You can make 50% progress and then someone comes along and says “she’s fine” and grabs the spray bottle and goes for a leg, you can undo a lot of progress in a moment.

Are you trying to coordinate with multiple people or would everyone okay with letting a single person be her guide in the learning opportunity?

[js]

My young horse was afraid of spray when I got him. I put a halter with lead on him then allowed him to move in a small circle around me as I sprayed (misted) his legs, started with just a front leg and worked around him as he got used to it. I gave him treats (use at your discretion) and lots of pats/good boy when he stopped and stood. It took a few tries like this but now he stands with no halter on and allows me to spray him.

[LCDR]

You are leasing this 21 year old mare, right?

I would not try to fix her spray aversion. I’d just use alternate ways to apply products and get on with my riding education and fun.

If she were six and you owned her, that would change my approach, but she’s not and you don’t.

[Montanas_Girl]

@LCDR

If she were six and you owned her, that would change my approach, but she’s not and you don’t.

This. Definitely a “not my circus, not my monkeys” situation for you. You can work around the spray issue with an older horse you’re just leasing.

For future reference, though, this is absolutely a learned behavior. Someone, somewhere in her past, taught her that freaking out made the spray bottle go away. Untraining that reaction takes patience, consistency, and excellent timing, but it can be done if you have just one or two competent people who are on the same page handling the horse regularly.

[BUSY]

@LCDR

You are leasing this 21 year old mare, right?

I would not try to fix her spray aversion. I’d just use alternate ways to apply products and get on with my riding education and fun.

If she were six and you owned her, that would change my approach, but she’s not and you don’t.

THIS !!!

[OverandOnward]

One of the biggest problems with behaviors like these is that people have repeatedly tried to train them, screwed it up, and therefore created a lot of resistance to standard desensitizing techniques. Basically, previous training efforts made it worse, and more resistant to training.

Just imo: You can make progress with training if you do it correctly. BUT she’s probably never going to be reliable. She’s spent too many years repeating this avoidance behavior, and it is now ingrained deeply in her brain.

Even if you do get her much better and calmer about it with you, someday someone else will spray her the wrong way, and all the training can be undone.

At 21 yo, I wouldn’t bother. It’s just not important to apply fly repellent by spray rather than by other methods. We humans also become too ingrained in methods that are truly optional.

Get a washrag or your preference of non-spraying rub-on applicant, and put the fly repellent on her that way. We call it “fly spray”, but really it is ‘fly repellent’ and it doesn’t matter how it goes on.

The method below works a charm if it is done the right way. But most people don’t get the timing right. But in any case, as said, I wouldn’t bother, I’d just apply fly repellent (that’s what the spray is) without spraying.

https://www.facebook.com/CarsonJamesHorses/videos/1745328225722274/

[Montanas_Girl]

@OverandOnward

Get a washrag or your preference of non-spraying rub-on applicant, and put the fly repellent on her that way. We call it “fly spray”, but really it is ‘fly repellent’ and it doesn’t matter how it goes on.

I had a Absorbine rep once tell me that all fly spray should be applied via rag or brush, not sprayed directly on the horse, for maximum effectiveness, FWIW. Not that I’ve been able to fully retrain myself yet!

[Scribbler]

So you already know the horse is owned by idiots because someone tried spraying her, missed all the fear cues, and mare flipped over in cross ties. So now mare thinks spray makes her flip over and break her neck.

Any horse that isn’t a known quantity, you spray them loose in the paddock and let them.show you how they feel.

There are lots of work arounds even washing a horse a bucket and sponge is fine. Just use sponge for fly spray but be careful not to spray the sponge near the mare.

I’ve often wondered if the spray of water or flyspray feels like a giant horsefly landing

Anyhow don’t try to fix this issue in this poor mare as like I said her own people are idiots and will likely undo it. And keep your eye open for other problems they have created too

[OverandOnward]

@Jumpingranch

I was wondering about letting her see me get sprayed, if that would do anything.

That’s not going to mean anything to a horse. That’s human thinking, human brain. Horses aren’t wired that way.

There is no reason to continue this dangerous training. Just rub it on and go on with enjoying your day.

[OverandOnward]

These situations – horses that don’t accept common stable practices, like fly spray, or even grooming or tying, are far more common than people think. The owners/ handlers have learned to do workarounds rather than confronting a dangerous level of resistance. And – they tend to hide it! We don’t know because they make sure we don’t see the problem in action.

You won’t be alone, OP, in just avoiding the problem and following a workaround. Just brush away the know-it-alls who think they can train it, as if they were flies.

You are in good company doing what is easiest and safest rather than following standard customs.

You should hear David O’Connor’s stories of trying to teach his Olympic gold medal horse Giltedge to bridle correctly and calmly. The horse was paranoid about anything touching his ears, and after all training efforts and medical explorations for painful problems, that never changed. According to David, bridling was a struggle at every ride. And David is a ground manners training expert!

Link below to help you feel better about your resistant lease horse – Skip down to the para that begins “Like many of the great ones, Tex was well known for his quirks, which longtime O’Connor Equestrian Team groom Max Corcoran recalled today.”

“One of my first away events with Karen and David was to Red Hills in 2002. Vanessa Roman was one of David’s grooms at the time and was there looking after Tex. He hated his ears being touched, and it took her three hours to braid him. She couldn’t get the top two braids done, so David did them. Tex only really ever trusted a few people to be up by his ears and only had his forelock braided for three-day events, and the braid stayed in all weekend from Wednesday to Sunday,” Max said.

https://eventingnation.com/u-s-hall-of-fame-event-horse-giltedge-dies-at-29/

[Scribbler]

Many newer riders, lesson and lease, or juniors with good guidance buying their horses, only encounter solid citizen horses that are calm for everything, no bite bolt buck etc. That’s as it should be!

But none of this is natural to horses. All horses will bite, bolt, buck, kick at the start, no horse is born halter broke or knowing how to to tie or load in a trailer, or have his feet done, or be washed or sprayed or even braided. All these things need to be taught gently but systematically hopefully starting as a foal. If you get a young horse, a fallen through the cracks horse, a pasture pet horse, even a fresh OTTB, there will be gaps in the things you naturally expect from a good older lesson horse.

[HPFarmette]

Have you ever tried a pump sprayer set to a mist level? You can pump it up away from the horse and adjust it to be as quiet as possible.

[poltroon]

I’d definitely be fine with just avoiding it for this horse, this situation.

But also: clicker training can be very effective and it’s a good skill to have in your toolbox. Try it maybe with some other things that are less problematic for her to get used to how it works, and to really establish that a click creates happiness. The podcast series from the Horse Radio Network has a lot of great tips for learning the method.

What’s magic for the clicker for a fear response like this is that the click goes straight to the amygdala just like the fear connection does. But also, the training itself creates trust and a relationship that is really useful that makes additional behaviors more doable.

[sparkygrace]

I agree with others who have advised to not bother trying to fix this. The mare is 21, she’ll hurt herself. Get a nice mitt and rub the fly spray on her coat. Many horses have quirks or dislikes ; fly spray is hers.

[Scribbler]

@sparkygrace

I agree with others who have advised to not bother trying to fix this. The mare is 21, she’ll hurt herself. Get a nice mitt and rub the fly spray on her coat. Many horses have quirks or dislikes ; fly spray is hers.

Yes. If you are using clicker and treats to teach something horse doesn’t mind and actually offers like “smile on cue,” timing is important but not life and death if you get it wrong. Trying to extinguish a deep seated fear that’s been recently reinforced by idiots who caused a physical accident is a whole other level of risk. I would say virtually no beginner clicker trainer or ground work ammies just starting out is going to have the timing and nuance to extinguish a deep seated and potentially violent fear. A horse that will flip in the crossties is a horse that would prefer to die than be sprayed.

I’m currently care taking a horse who is terrified of spray and dislikes the hose. Terrified of any spray even pump bottle water. She has bigger issues. I’ve worked effectively on her letting the trimmer do her feet because that’s actually important. But she can have a sponge bath if it’s hot, and if needed I would use fly spray on a sponge. Spray is not a hill we need to die on.

My main mare is completely different. She’s become very complacent about all care and loves a bath. But I recall someone (not me) stupidly fly sprayed her face years ago, and it took some deliberate care to get her over that. I made sure to never even let the spray drift into her eyes

[cristalle]

@OverandOnward

It’s just not important to apply fly repellent by spray rather than by other methods. We humans also become too ingrained in methods that are truly optional.

Get a washrag or your preference of non-spraying rub-on applicant, and put the fly repellent on her that way. We call it “fly spray”, but really it is ‘fly repellent’ and it doesn’t matter how it goes on.

The method below works a charm if it is done the right way. But most people don’t get the timing right. But in any case, as said, I wouldn’t bother, I’d just apply fly repellent (that’s what the spray is) without spraying.

https://www.facebook.com/CarsonJamesHorses/videos/1745328225722274/

This.
She is very clear about not wanting to be sprayed, and she is a good old girl in every other way.
Don’t spray her. Simple. Just spray a cloth or pour on a cloth and wipe it on. Remember there was a product called WIPE?

[Equibrit]

I get babies used to being sprayed by using a noiseless pump spray, standing slightly behind and to the side of their hip. This way you spray their head from behind.

[PaddockWood]

One, I would never crosstie this mare again. I hate crossties - like a straightjacket for horses. I’ve used them many times but don’t like them.

My new guy - mustang - doesn’t like them either and the thought he could flip over it, has me not use them. He ties well and gives to pressure but there’s something about cross ties. Maybe he had a bad experience before I got him.

We’ve worked on them too and he’s willing now and doesn’t panic but I’d NEVER walk away from him. Too much risk. He has learned to ground tie which is valuable to me.

AND, he was terrified of being sprayed when I got him. Clicker training to the rescue. Spray away from him, click and hay pellets. Took time to where I could spray him and have him stay completely relaxed. All thanks to R+ that was long ago and spraying is not stressful at all now. Just like clippers, water spraying at the wash stall, etc. All made positive with hay pellets and having fun and taking it slow. Slow. Slow.

Now I can spray him with no halter, no attachment. He gets it. Fly spray = no fly bites! No longer any clicker training about it. Not needed.

Turn it all into a game and have fun with it.

He also gets now that Mama gets the horseflys. He stands perfectly still and I come in like a volleyball player and WHAM we kill that sucker!

[Luseride]

I had a horse that was injured as a yearling that required stitches. We had to spray it with something to prevent proud flesh which obviously stung. After that I never was able to spray her with anything other than the water hose. It was not worth the fight and danger to her and myself.

Yes it was a learned behavior and if I had more experience at the time it probably would not have escalated. I did gain wisdom and some things are just not worth fighting about.