Horse kicking out with hind legs when eating grain

[geten]

to start off, this is a new behaviour which is why im looking for some answers.
over the past 2-3 weeks ive noticed my guy has been kicking out with a back leg and sometimes bucking when he gets the first few bites of his grain. he settles down after the first few bites and eats and drinks fine. this is a new behaviour for him, he has never bucked or kicked in general at anything.
we did just add magnesium oxide to his feed around this time and now that i’m typing this out i wonder if that has anything to do with it.
other than the addition of magnesium he hasn’t had any changes to his feed or routine. he is generally an anxious guy around feed time but this is a bit of an escalation in behaviour.

does this sound like ulcers or a behaviour/ husbandry problem?
i’ve asked the vet for omeprazole in any case so we’ll see if that has an impact
any ideas or input appreciated

[sascha]

[quote=“geten, post:1, topic:801685”]
we did just add magnesium oxide to his feed around this time and now that i’m typing this out i wonder if that has anything to do with it.
other than the addition of magnesium he hasn’t had any changes to his feed or routine. he is generally an anxious guy around feed time but this is a bit of an escalation in behaviour.[/quote]

Magnesium can be hard on the guts.

@geten

does this sound like ulcers or a behaviour/ husbandry problem?

Ulcers.

[RAyers]

In humans, oral magnesium can cause stomach upset. I doubt ulcers. I would get rid of the magnesium and see if your horse settles back down.

Magnesium is not a benign element when given beyond a normal dietary amount. It can cause bone malformation due to competition with calcium uptake. Additionally, it can cause irregular heartbeat etc. in those sensitive to it.

[beowulf]

Is he being stalled, fed in a confined area? Is this immediately after coming in from turnout? Is he still actively eating hay in his turnout as he is brought in, if so?

Does he have neighbors he is reacting to?

Many boarded horses are proprietary about their grain time, especially if they are coming off being turned out with no available forage. I would hang up a stall mat if this is happening within the stall. You do not want him hurting himself or damaging barn property while this happens - I have seen horses seriously injure themselves or others kicking out in stalls.

I think starting with omeprazole is a good start, but if the behavior continues, consider putting him in a quieter area (if this is while stalled) and having him have access to hay 24/7. You may want to scope also.

[geten]

i didn’t know magnesium could adverse effects, was told it couldn’t hurt. def gonna stop the mag

[RAyers]

This is how lots of people make money selling things to the general public. “Natural” does not mean harmless or no side-effects.

You can kill an animal/human with magnesium (even oral) if done correctly.

[cilla1]

What @beowulf said, my old gelding used to do this because he was claiming his grain as his, it would escalate depending on how hungry he was and who was his neighbour in that moment. He stopped when I brought him home when he had food all day long and his beloved mare as only companion

[Warmblood1]

This could be entirely behavioral. I have a young horse that does this. He paws with excitement over feed and eventually began kicking out with a hind leg. He is within sight of other horses eating and it was his way of claiming his feed. I threw a feed bucket at his butt one day because I was afraid of eventually getting kicked. Like magic, the behavior disappeared. He was just enthusiastic.

[geten]

his neighbour and environment and routine has not changed for 3 years, as i mentioned in my post nothing else has changed about his feeding routine to explain the escalation.

[geten]

thanks for your comment, i wont be throwing a bucket at my horse though, glad it worked for you i guess!

[4horses]

I’ve known lots of horses to lift a leg while eating. Some will paw, some will pick up a front leg and beg (with it held up to the chest). Kicking out behind is weird but it wouldn’t surprise me if they did so out of excitement. I had one mare who had a bad habit of kicking the stall wall with a hind foot at feeding time. My stall needs sanding and repainting because it has 50 dents in it from her.

I have one now who takes a front foot and knocks on the wall. Especially if he wants out.

[Warmblood1]

@geten

thanks for your comment, i wont be throwing a bucket at my horse though, glad it worked for you i guess!

I tossed a 5 qt bucket at my horses butt. He’s 1200 pounds. The noise was the worst part. It resolved the behavior immediately and I didn’t have to throw unnecessary GI drugs at my horse without any diagnostics or second guess if it was a behavioral or health issue. Really not that bad.

[cilla1]

Don’t worry, once I threw a - plastic - chair to a too exuberant and pushy youngster, it worked like a charm. I only had the chair at hand lol

[endlessclimb]

I’ll throw anything in my hands if the alternative is getting kicked. The element of surprise is the key. They aren’t hurt, they just didn’t realize you had 20 foot long arms.

I know several people who have had ribs broken, a fractured face, a fractured femur, etc by getting kicked. No thank you, not for me.

OP this sounds situational/behavioral to me personally. I had one who would hold up a front foot the entire time while eating grain. I know several geldings that get erections at grain time. It’s exciting!

[beowulf]

That’s alright, I had a good chuckle at your post because god knows I have chucked a bucket at one of my own horses getting too pushy for my own safety. I can’t stand a bargey horse and that once was enough to get the point across. Sometimes it’s all in the sound effect.

You work around horses long enough, you’ll see all sorts of things. I guarantee some of these things are even done by tired workers in boarding barns. Lol.

OP, one thing I thought of now - since you mention this is a new behavior. Is it at all possible he might be sore somewhere? I do notice with the boarders I’ve cared for that sometimes if a horse isn’t feeling well he becomes more irritable and possessive of his stall (and grain).

[cilla1]

OP you said nothing changes but could it be the weather? Is it very cold? My gelding gets very grumpy when he’s cold

[Aussie_2020]

I’ve had a couple horses paw with a front leg when they first start eating grain. They would paw if they were tied and wanted to move and even when ridden at times. But they never kicked out. I’d definitely stop the mag and see if the kicking stops.

Pretty funny how when someone says they wouldn’t throw a bucket at their horse then gets attacked (coth’s common description) and accused of not getting their horse properly diagnosed by a vet. I love this place!

[geten]

absolutely its the cold but what is the remedy to that haha. i wish we could move down to florida for the winter!
i also think the cold is making some other underlying condition or ailment worse and im trying to figure out what that might be to relieve whatever that may be

[geten]

yea that comment threw me for a loop for sure. i wasn’t sure what type of horse people were on this forum but i don’t think ill be coming back for advice.
when i first started out riding i asked for help bathing a horse and this lady kicked the mare in the side because she wouldn’t stand still. sure she only kicked her once and maybe the mare stood a little quieter for that moment but that type of horsemanship is just not something i’m willing to engage in.

[RhythmNCruise]

I kicked my gelding in the chest this morning. It wasn’t hard, and it was a “backwards kick” (I was facing away from him and kicked out behind me like another horse would). It definitely didn’t hurt him, but it surprised him and he stopped his shenanigans immediately. He gets pushy when I bring hay out of the hay shelter and am carrying it to wherever I’m feeding it for the day. This morning it was raining and so I had to take it over to his stall. He’s right behind me, trying to snatch it out of my hand. I usually just ignore him or walk quickly and am always ready to throw an elbow at his nose if needed. He was far enough behind I didn’t think he’d try to get the hay and suddenly he bites ME (just my coat, but still) in a desperate grab for the hay. Keep in mind, he is not an aggressive horse in the least and would never bite a person on purpose. I’m to blame for letting him get so pushy when I’m carrying hay, and I’ve got to be consistent with stopping it. He’s a friendly, sweet horse, he really is. Ears are up when he makes the hay grab (coat grab this morning).
So, I stopped immediately, backed a step and kicked out, nailing him in the chest while making that noise we all make when correcting a horse (you all know the noise…I Have no idea how to spell it, LOL). He was so surprised and then slightly offended and turned away and stayed out while I put the hay in his stall. He knew he’d messed up. I continued to remind him that I was in charge and I’m the one who moves his feet and decides when and where he gets to eat.

I’ve definitely tossed some buckets in my day as well. I’ve fed a lot of horses over the past 36 years that I’ve been involved with them, and sometimes that has been feeding a herd of broodmares out in a pasture that are all trying to nail each other as I’m dishing out feed and hay. You have to be highly respected and somewhat feared in that scenario if you want to stay safe. Horses need to be trained to know that the very LAST thing they EVER want to do is hurt a human being either intentionally or by accident. They can push each other around all they want, but they need to tip-toe around the humans. They’re too big to have it any other way.

This forum is full of people who have decades of experience with all aspects of horse care. You take what advice you like and ignore what you don’t.