Horse lets *only* me catch her

[Defying_Logic]

Horse in question is a 15 year old arab x dhh cross mare. When she was younger, she did half arab breed shows at a national level. Around when she was 8ish, her owner at the time went to vet school and she stopped doing anything and went to living out in a small herd 24/7. During this time, she would be caught in a catch pen for her basic care, on rare occasion her owner would groom or hop on for a few minutes once every few months, but she was more or less left to her own devices.

Almost 2 years ago, one of my clients decided to take her on, so getting her back into work became my project. Mare sees no reason she should have to work again. She will let you walk up and say hi, but gets the hell out of dodge if she sees a halter. Any “tricks” I try (i.e. taking out a bucket, using the catch pen) work once before she catches on, so I spent the first month or so just walking her down, which would take 30 minutes to 2 hours, and doing pleasant things amd going home. Once I could catch her easily consistently, she started slowly back into work. We addressed her arthritis, treates for ulcers, and ended up with a much more pleasant and cheerful horse who started coming when called and meeting me at the gate. She’s still an opinionated mare, but has come around to working again.

For about the first year, I was the only one really handling her. Owner would occasionally fuss over her, barn owners would occasionally catch for the vet or farrier, but I was riding her 6 days a week. She doesn’t meet anyone else at the gate, but she let them walk up to her and catch her. Last summer (2018), owner’s riding skills are finally to the point she starts riding mare in her lessons (an aside, she knew the horse was too much for her when she took her, but was willing to work her way up to her). Catching issue remains gone, there were a few times people mare didn’t know were able to just walk up and catch her.

That brings us to this winter. Early December the barn owner mentions that he’s having a hard time catching her to blanket her, but not to take it off. Mare has demonstrated being sensitive to static, so I don’t think too much of it. I start putting her blanket on before I leave at night and he takes it off. This lasts a week or so before she stops letting him take it off. On the last day, he tried three times, barn worker tried, and a boarder they thought might have better luck tried, no luck. I don’t expect any of them to spend a few hours walking her down. BO makes sure to find me when I get there that day. I go out and can pull the blanket and put it back on with no issue. She’s her usual meet me at the gate self. At this point, I take over all her blanketing, mare has a full coat, lots of hay, and shelter so it is minimal. No further issues until I go out of town for the holidays.

Late December while I’m out of town, owner texts me because she couldn’t catch mare for the farrier and she got frustrated and gave up. I have her leave mare be until I’m back a couple of days later. Owner and I go out together and mare is perfect. We catch and release several times without issue. Owner and I talk about how giving up reinforces the running, how she needs to stay calm and act like she has all day, ect.

Next lesson, I get to the barn while owner is out trying to catch mare. I can see mare cantering around, so I walk over to talk owner through catching. As soon as I walk up to the fence, mare sees me, slams on the breaks, and lets owner walk up and catch her.

This sets the current pattern. Mare is perfect for me as usual, meets me at the gate every night. If I’m in eye sight, or teaching in the arena and she can hear my voice, she’s fine for owner. If I’m not there, it is about 50/50 if she will let owner catch her and if she runs, owner still tends to give up after about 10 minutes. There have been a few times others have tried to catch her and she runs, but if they are willing to walk her down, eventually they can get her. I’m at a bit of a loss, since I can’t school a problem I can’t see. I can’t go out with owner to keep her from getting frustrated and giving up. My current thought is to try and bribe a handful of other people to walk her down and hope to reach a critical mass where she gives up. Any other ideas?

[Scribbler]

I would move horse out of pasture life for a while to a barn with maybe a dry lot paddock where horse has to come into the barn to eat.

I retired my old horse out on pasture when I was in college, and she learned eventually she didn’t need to let me catch her. But the old cowboy who looked after her could catch her, trim her feet, put her in a trailer (which she used to hate). I just figured he had better horse skills than me.

Back then I figured the only way to retame her would have been to put her back in a barn setup and go see her every day. Break up the free life on pasture and establish a relationship with her again.

[oppsfelldown]

Can the mare be stalled? If so then she needs to stay in the stall until the owner has her lesson and have turn outs in the round pen and pasture only when the owner is not going to be out. With the mare’s well established behavior then I would also add a drag line when turned out in the round pen. (under supervision, for short turn outs)

Additionally, you need to stop working with the horse, the owner needs to be the “safe” person.

[4LeafCloverFarm]

Our Welsh pony loved this game… catch me if you can - and watch me laugh at you while you kill yourself trying to do it! Actually, I could catch him - but no one else could. Which was problematic.

Long story short, left him in a breakaway halter and cotton leadrope for a few weeks. Until he would let my husband or whoever walk straight up to him and take the leadrope. His reward was a “good boy” and a pat. He was begging for the halter to be removed near the end of our trial and would actually follow us around in his pasture. He’d gently nudge your hand, as if to say please! take the halter off, I promise I will behave!!!

This was a really difficult decision for me, as I am anti-halter out in pasture, let alone leaving a leadrope on. However, our rather wise blacksmith, ages ago, when we first got the pony, suggested we try this method. He was right. It worked, and the pony survived - no worse for wear. That was 15 years ago. All I or my husband or the horsesitter or whoever has to do now is call him and he comes running.

[Janet]

Have you, or the student, tried “cookies”?

[MsM]

I think the owner needs to decide that if she tries to catch the horse, the horse must be caught one way or another. Every time the horse"wins" this game it makes it more difficult.
Is there any way to herd the horse into a smaller area if the owner can’t catch in the field? I think owner has to do more work catching and releasing and being a positive presence, probably in a smaller area.

[clanter]

@Janet

Have you, or the student, tried “cookies”?

current favorite is Benton’s Iced Oatmeal Cookies from Aldi … rattle the wrapper the whole herd lines up

https://www.instacart.com/aldi/products/17497368-benton-s-iced-oat-cookies-12-oz

We had one mare who could hear the crinkle of the wrapper of a peppermint being unwrapped from at least 500 feet

[beowulf]

I agree. This mare needs to be put in a smaller enclosure, permanently, until her behavior gets better.

Find a high-motivating treat to do this - NOT grain. Something that is very rare and rewarding. You may need to employ the help of other people like barn rats, as long as the mare is “safe” (IE won’t turn around and kick out, as she runs away). Spearmint gumdrops, gingersnaps (a huge favorite), peppermints, munchkin donuts, poptarts, sugar-cubes, are high-motivating treats IME. Have people approach the pony, halter, give treats AFTER being haltered, and then unhalter and leave. Do NOTHING else. Have as many people do this as possible, as many times as possible during the work-day. Do this for weeks, every day.

Another thing that helps, is to halter before grain time. Feed the others, put down the pan of grain outside the enclosure, halter the horse up, and then lead the horse to grain and hold her while she eats. After she is done, bring her back to the paddock and release her. (do not do anything else!)

One thing that must be done consistently, is not to give up and let the mare not get caught. That is very bad and will set the progress of improving this behavior back.

The other thing is, make sure people are not chasing the horse (no chasing, driving, throwing rocks, whatever – all stuff I have seen people do!). In my experience this makes the horse even less likely to want to be caught because you are now introducing a second negative aspect into being caught (fear/being chased). Simply trail after the horse, patient as pie, until the horse grows tired of evading.

There are some reasons why a horse won’t be caught, and as I have gotten older and worked with more of them, I’ve found it has less to do with the horse having a poor attitude, and more to do with the horse telling you something. Some horses have never learned that being caught is a good thing. Some other horses have learned being caught is when they are ridden, and that sores or hurts them. Some other horses have had bad experiences, have been shocked, have been hit or struck, or are being punished by stable-hands without your consent.

So, definitely explore these reasons. More often than not, I have been able to “rehabilitate” this behavior by repeating the above, until they learn that sometimes you’re just haltered, and there’s nothing to it, and nothing bad comes out of it. I will say that, as a past barn grunt that is very patient and was always given the “harder” horses to handle, that many times these horses were running away because they associated being caught with pain - usually riding pain (back-soress). Most of these horses I worked with are not horses I would say were 100% sound, but were used in lessons as servicably sound, and them running away or refusing to be caught was often one of many signs they had bodily complaints needing to be addressed. Are you sure this horse is sound, that the saddle fits, that the workload is appropriate, etc? It is worth investigating that, because my experience has been that horses that don’t want to be caught are running away because they are anticipating being hurt in some way - and most times, the hurt is not intentional!

YMMV. One of my geldings went through a period where he could not be caught by anyone but me either. I know it is not because he plays favorites. It was because the other person at the barn chucked a bucket at him because he was crowding her during grain time - it was well deserved (I was there, I trust this person and her handling implicitly), but my horse is a Hot House Flower and since then, has been very wary and usually will run away from her - especially if buckets are within range :lol:

[WBmare]

It sounds like you have spent a lot of time with this horse and have earned her trust. Since she is a little difficult to catch I would probably bring her to a smaller paddock if possible. The owner needs to spend time gaining her trust. When walking up to her look for the slightest sign that she’s worried or tense and back off. Take a step back to take the pressure off. Wait for her to let down, the walk up slowly again. When she gets worried or turns her head to block you out, back the pressure off and wait. Rinse and repeat for as long as it takes to get up to her. Take your time and go very slow. Make every interaction with her a positive experience.

Don’t have any expectations when you go try to catch her. The owner might have to do several sessions of this until she can walk up to her with out issue. Take every movement as valuable information and listen to the horse. I find that when we slow down, are mentally present and listen to what the horse is telling us we build a stronger relationship with the horse.

[candyappy]

We almost always have a treat or a bit of grain in our hands when we go out to halter the horses. It has always been my practice with every horse either born here or purchased. I have never had an issue catching my horses.

[CHT]

Do other people put the halter on differently, or otherwise do anything else differently? How about how they then lead/handle her once caught? Are the mad/frustrated and get after her once caught?

I don’t “walk horses down” anymore. It is too tiring, and can create a fear response in the horse (to human approach). Approach and Retreat is a more effective method. (where you back off as soon as you see any sign the horse is about to move away, eventually the horse will realize you are not to be feared, and will let you make contact).

Alternatively, and if the horse is food motivated, it may be enough to start giving the other horses a small treat or handful of hay to get the target horse to come around (obviously you need permission to feed other horses), or have a catch pen available you can coerce the horse in to have them in a smaller space.

But: also consider there may be an additional reason the horse is hard to catch: have it’s teeth been done recently/mouth checked? I have had two training horses come in with teeth so bad that the pressure from the halter would have been quite painful!

[phoebetrainer]

The owner needs to decide they will spend the time it takes to train her the way you did. This might mean that she needs to go out each day and walk her down for hours to feed her a tidbit and then leave. Putting the mare in a stall will not mean she “learns better manners”. Horse has no idea why she is in a stall or smaller area.
It might take some time for the owner to come around to this way of thinking - but you need to be clear and up front about it. This is not a problem with the horse, this is a problem for the owner.

[Defying_Logic]

Thanks for the suggestions. Sorry if I missed a question.

Mare gets a molasses treat (think stud muffin or something similar) when she gets her halter on, her favorite.

I ride mare 6 days a week, owner is out once or twice a week in nice weather, less when it is cold. I’ve been trying to get owner to take the time to catch her for the last couple months and she always agrees, until she trys and gets frustrated. At this point, I’ve given up on her doing that, thus looking for other ideas. I also would like anyone who needs to to be able to catch her.

Mare needs maintenance and she gets it. I think the initial catching issue 2 years ago was probably pain related as we were figuring out what she needed, but since she is still perfect for me and she is not stoic about any discomfort, I don’t think that is the issue this time. Best as I can tell, it initiated with her being upset at blanketing, and then when it worked she was motivated to keep it up. For reference, last night I was out about 5 minutes after dinner was dropped and she left it to come to me at the gate.

There is a catch pen that can be used, but of it is used regularly, mare just stops going towards it, so it is there for an emergency, but doesn’t work for regular use.

When I was initially working on it, mare was not chased in any way, just followed calmly until she was done. That is what has been discussed with owner as well, but I can’t watch her as mare stops running any time I’m out with her. Owner tends toward timid. Mare has no bite or kick.

She does not do well in a stall. Her current paddock isn’t huge, I’m bad at size estimates, it is big enough for running and playing, but not so big she can run and hide. This is where she does best physically and mentally, so I’m willing to get creative to keep her there.

[Posting_Trot]

My previous mare occasionally liked the catch me if you can game. Basically I would just walk her down, and eventually she grew bored.

But, one trick that I believe helped a great deal (aside from the treats, which I also used) was never to walk directly to her. I would enter the field, and go up to some of the other horses and say hello (I didn’t give them treats, though, although presumably my mare didn’t know that!). And when I was ready to approach my horse, I walked up to her at an oblique angle, and never made eye contact. I never hid the halter but I didn’t immediately try to throw it on; instead, we’d stand there for a moment or two. And then I would put the halter on. And then I would give her the treat. And then we’d stand for a moment or two. And then we’d walk towards the gate.

I came to think of this (and I will give you advance warning for the use of natural horsemanship type terms) as not projecting a lot of energy towards the horse. I felt that she was quite sensitive, and if I tried to walk directly to her at a march, looking hard at her, that she saw this as me sending her away, like in a round-pen; that I was being aggressive. And if I got anxious or upset about not catching her, that made me appear more aggressive and unpleasant.

I also think that my “talking” to other herd members piqued her curiosity.

It might be worth trying.

[JLR1]

My gelding also an Arab is a mamas boy with full blown stranger danger. He has no pain issues and loves to work but is very, very wary of any new person coming towards him for any reason. His first instinct is to flee. Once he knows and trusts a person he can be caught…but it does take patience, bribes such as mints and a person who used techniques that Posting Trot mentioned above. As an owner it’s frustrating to have “the problem child” but having moved barns several times I can say with each barn my horse did get used to the new people doing the handling so it’s not impossible to fix.

[Emily_amp_Jake]

Smaller enclosure/stall is definitely the way to go. Maresy needs to be okay with anyone catching and handling her.

[yaya]

@Posting Trot

My previous mare occasionally liked the catch me if you can game. Basically I would just walk her down, and eventually she grew bored.

But, one trick that I believe helped a great deal (aside from the treats, which I also used) was never to walk directly to her. I would enter the field, and go up to some of the other horses and say hello (I didn’t give them treats, though, although presumably my mare didn’t know that!). And when I was ready to approach my horse, I walked up to her at an oblique angle, and never made eye contact. I never hid the halter but I didn’t immediately try to throw it on; instead, we’d stand there for a moment or two. And then I would put the halter on. And then I would give her the treat. And then we’d stand for a moment or two. And then we’d walk towards the gate.

I came to think of this (and I will give you advance warning for the use of natural horsemanship type terms) as not projecting a lot of energy towards the horse. I felt that she was quite sensitive, and if I tried to walk directly to her at a march, looking hard at her, that she saw this as me sending her away, like in a round-pen; that I was being aggressive. And if I got anxious or upset about not catching her, that made me appear more aggressive and unpleasant.

I also think that my “talking” to other herd members piqued her curiosity.

It might be worth trying.

I have a gelding like this. I’ve had to do the walking down routine. One time when he got really going, I had to resort to keeping him away from the water trough until he got tired and thirsty enough to let me catch him (and immediately take him to the trough for a drink).

I found that he too does better with the indirect approach, and even better, let him come up to me from behind. So when he looks like he’s about to play keep away by going around me, I just stop and let him come to me from behind. (It’s always at a walk, and totally non-aggressive.)

Haven’t had a catch problem with him in a long time - at dinner time, all three come up to the gate to be haltered, and I don’t even have to go inside! (They are all in separate pastures, no crowding at the gate.)

[Angela_Freda]

@Posting Trot

My previous mare occasionally liked the catch me if you can game. Basically I would just walk her down, and eventually she grew bored.

But, one trick that I believe helped a great deal (aside from the treats, which I also used) was never to walk directly to her. I would enter the field, and go up to some of the other horses and say hello (I didn’t give them treats, though, although presumably my mare didn’t know that!). And when I was ready to approach my horse, I walked up to her at an oblique angle, and never made eye contact. I never hid the halter but I didn’t immediately try to throw it on; instead, we’d stand there for a moment or two. And then I would put the halter on. And then I would give her the treat. And then we’d stand for a moment or two. And then we’d walk towards the gate.

I came to think of this (and I will give you advance warning for the use of natural horsemanship type terms) as not projecting a lot of energy towards the horse. I felt that she was quite sensitive, and if I tried to walk directly to her at a march, looking hard at her, that she saw this as me sending her away, like in a round-pen; that I was being aggressive. And if I got anxious or upset about not catching her, that made me appear more aggressive and unpleasant.

I also think that my “talking” to other herd members piqued her curiosity.

It might be worth trying.

Smart horse knows who will not stop pursuing her until she is caught, and who will give up before mare does.
Until that changes the only person who will be able to catch her is the former.

[beowulf]

IME biting during blanketing (when the horse is otherwise not a biter) is either backsoreness or ulcers, sometimes both.

[Defying_Logic]

Mare does not bite or kick during blanketing or any other time, she just leaves if possible or fidgets if she can’t. We did try treating for ulcers because of that behavior and there was zero difference. I can’t remember if the catching issues had resurfaced at that time or if was shortly before.