Horse massage soon to be illegal in California if this passes. What about your state?

[Watermark_Farm]

Here in California we have a very hot situation right now where the state veterinary boards are trying to modify some language which would essentially mean you could only have massage and similar therapy done only if a veterinarian is present, on site. A lot of horse owners are pretty livid at the idea the veterinary community is trying to define “unlicensed activity” to this degree and make simple care like massage require a veterinarian. Who could afford massage if a vet is always involved? (California proposed change detailed here)

I stumbled across a state-by-state listing outlining the various laws regarding animal massage, etc. I was just curious for those of you in states where a veterinarian is required on-site, what has been your experience? Who provides these services?

[Inclinedtowhisper]

So far they haven’t made this a law in my state (Indiana) at least of yet…
But for those that would be aloud to do it, my guess would be only those certified in massage with a degree or proof of certification.

Holistic Vets would be on the highest list of those deemed “safe”

I’m hoping this isn’t passed in my state though. I do massage on my own horses and those brought in for training or rehab. It would make things very difficult for my clients. Although, I thankfully have a Holistic Vet that does these sorts of things so I’d certainly have a qualified backup if it ever came to that.

You can get licensed for massage at certain schools. Meridith Manor is one of them (at least, last time I checked) Some Holistic Vets are licensed to train their own interns and license them after a few years under their guidence as well.

[nu2u]

What the fruit bat…I’m licensed to work on humans and we don’t need a doctor presen)t(but yes we do ask a general question about medical conditions and possibly ask them to please get medical clearance for massage?? Sure write a law to distinguished certified equine massage professionals from just any old person with hands…but damn if my blacksmith gets arrested for rubbing n squeezing my mares neck I’d be right behind him for obstruction of justice…oh hellz yezzz this cowgirl will go all sorts of cray cray to protect my pony’s feet

[DancingArabian]

I think farriers will be one of the next targets.

[nu2u]

NNNNNNNNNOOOOOOOOooooooooo I can’t afford venograms with MRIs every 5-6 weeks for 2 horses. In all seriousness, how do they expect to get a stricter regulation than exists for humans to pass regarding horses?? what about the chiros?

[CHT]

There was something like that on the books for Alberta. None of the vets I spoke to were for it with that language, but were supportive of tighter regulation. I think the verbiage they preferred was that the horse was under veterinary care and that the therapist was working under the vet’s guidance/knowledge.

I do think some tighter regulation may be wise. There isn’t much to regulate/define who is qualified, and people are (in my opinion) going to alternative therapies when a vet is likely warranted, and alternative therapists providing (in my opinion) unethical advise.

[Rusty15]

Oh how frickin stupid. That’s Cali though, the land of dumba$$ laws and regulations.

[rainechyldes]

It’s unfortunate. I have been a certified equine massage therapist for oh… 15 years or so now. I have never practiced much (as in charged fees or advertised that I was in that field), outside my own family horses and friends competitive horses. So I can see both sides of the argument. On a few occasions I’ve had people ask me to look at a horse I already wasn’t extremely familiar with and already had a vets ok on it who was NQR, I referred them to see a vet 1st. Even if I was going to work on their horse, vet 1st, me 2nd. That’s just the way I roll.

Diagnosis is NOT what a massage therapist should be doing. At all. I imagine some where along the line perhaps some have perhaps and things went south?

I don’t know of course, hazarding a guess. At the same time, massage is beneficial for any athlete, human or animal. And I’d hate to see such a thing just clean pulled off the table:/ Ugh.

[Rallycairn]

How is “direct supervision” generally interpreted in practice in states which require it, does anyone know? Seems like that is a common requirement in many states. Is it seen as having to have the vet present at sessions?

[mvp]

[QUOTE=DancingArabian;8292052]
I think farriers will be one of the next targets.[/QUOTE]

Well…. think that through. Farriers aren’t taking money from vets and have an established area of expertise, including a guild that is older than the profession of veterinary medicine. And vets don’t want the farriers’ work.

I was in New York when this change happened there. IIRC, horse massagers started describing their work as “horse rubbing” and worked around the legal problem, quietly.

[Gloria]

I can’t imagine this pass in my state, but it does, well, I’m going to treat it like equine dentistry. They can make it illegal. It is my animals and I will do whatever I deem beneficial for them.

[Watermark_Farm]

[QUOTE=Rallycairn;8292192]
How is “direct supervision” generally interpreted in practice in states which require it, does anyone know? Seems like that is a common requirement in many states. Is it seen as having to have the vet present at sessions?[/QUOTE]

I think it means vet on site and horse is under his care.
I’m curious about people who live in the states where ‘direct supervision’ is required — what is your actual experience? How do people get around it?

[tbchick84]

Vets tried that crap in CT and it was quickly see for what it is, a way for vets to make a buck. I can’t imagine having to try to coordinate having both a vet and my massage person out at the same time and the barn call cost every 2 months would put an end to massages for my horse.

[LesleyW]

Riiiiiight. And this is clearly with the welfare of the horse in mind, right?
Meanwhile, the Big Lick situation is allowed to continue…

[LookmaNohands]

Oooh, bless California’s heart.
rolls eyes

[pezk]

That state listing says massage is not allowed in Ma unless practiced by vet. First time I’ve ever heard that since a lot, ALOT,of horse owners pay for massage practiced by non vets. I call it BS.

[findeight]

Ohio here, mostly ignored but vets do recommend it and provide recommendations which could be considered supervision. I won’t use one unless I check references, including vets.

[poltroon]

Public comment is open on the proposed California regulation through September 10. Here is a link to the wording in question:

http://www.vmb.ca.gov/laws_regs/arehab_lang.pdf

[Bluey]

[QUOTE=poltroon;8293973]
Public comment is open on the proposed California regulation through September 10. Here is a link to the wording in question:

http://www.vmb.ca.gov/laws_regs/arehab_lang.pdf[/QUOTE]

That is about way more than just massage.
I am not sure massage alone on a horse standing there may not fall under this.
As someone said, don’t call it “therapeutic massage” and you are in the clear.
Call it recreational massage.
I think that today many masseurs do work with vets when it is therapeutic massage, following whatever the vet determines the horse needs:

§ 2038.5. Animal Rehabilitation.
(a) The term “animal rehabilitation” (AR) is the use of the physical, chemical, and other properties of thermal, magnetic, biofeedback technology, hydrotherapy (such as underwater treadmills), electricity, sound, therapeutic massage, manual therapy, and active, passive, and resistive exercise for the prevention, cure, or relief of a wound, fracture, bodily injury, or disease of animals. AR includes evaluation, treatment, instruction, and consultative services.

When I was shoeing horses, if a horse needed a vet, he was first seen by one and then I would shoe according to what the vet said to do.

Otherwise, I just shod them as they needed for regular hoof care.

Maybe that is a distinction they should add to the regulations, when whatever modality of physical therapy was medically indicated and so requiring a vet and when it was not.

[Lady_Eboshi]

[QUOTE=tbchick84;8293285]
Vets tried that crap in CT and it was quickly see for what it is, a way for vets to make a buck. I can’t imagine having to try to coordinate having both a vet and my massage person out at the same time and the barn call cost every 2 months would put an end to massages for my horse.[/QUOTE]

Years ago we had no “horse massage,” we had old-time GROOMS who were what an Englishman would call good “strappers.” They rubbed horses a LOT, and they used some serious elbow grease doing it. (Actual “strapping” is a technique where the horse flexes his muscles against the groom’s thumping them pretty hard with a wool-flocked round leather block. The horse learns to participate in his own “massage.”)

The issue as I understand it is today we have a lot of “practitioners” running around claiming their supposedly “educated” version of what grooms formerly did is actually preventing, curing, or treating injury or disease–which definitively falls under the purview of “veterinary medicine.” That’s where the woo-woo hits the fan. :winkgrin:

Same as the “Supplements” racket. Call your pixie dust anything you like, and say it “supports aura function” or some such, no problem. But the minute you say your Glimmer-Glam is doing what Bute does, now the FDA is going to shut you down.

It all comes under practicing “medicine,” or claiming to, without the necessary qualifications.

Personally, I feel that a very vigorous half-hour grooming DAILY does many good, quantifiable things for a horse. Half an hour once a week or month of “massage?” I don’t care if MERLIN himself is doing it, not much effect there.

But it’s your money.