Horse mentally "checked out" and ran - what to do?

[asb_own_me]

In over 23 years of riding, I’ve never had a horse “check out” like this mare did today. We were galloping on the road with two others, the field is far enough ahead that we can no longer see them. I tried to keep her rated, to no avail. Gone. I think we went about 3/4 of a mile before I was able to pull her up. I’m no tiny rider, and she’s not real big. I got nowhere…I’m still not sure why she pulled up when she did. Guess she got winded?

Her today:

• in a Waterford so that she can’t grab/brace on the bit
• wearing a standing martingale (ex polo pony…it’s a good idea)
• no jumping, we were doing gate group to have a little less stimulation than going first flight
• nervous earlier but had started to settle

When she took off/as she ran, I was secure in my seat, not getting bounced around, not grabbing her with my legs. I was pulsing/half halting with the reins, not gripping and holding on for dear life. So I don’t think I was adding to the problem, but I certainly wasn’t doing much to affect her.

It really, really rattled me. She completely checked out, mentally. When I think of what could have happened had she tripped/lost her footing, I feel sick. It was a hard packed gravel road. She lost two shoes…what if one had twisted coming off and tripped her?

So what options do I have to try and solve this behavior? I purchased her to foxhunt. She’s a good jumper, but obviously that matters very little if she’s not under control. She’s absolutely yawning quiet in the arena and trails by herself or in small groups. We passed the other two horses in a matter of two leaps forward - but she went on long after that. Any ideas?

[IFG]

For my horse, a long-shanked rubber pelham with a tight curb chain works.

[LauraKY]

A polo pony is used to going in a pelham or gag with draw reins with a standing martingale. They need to stop and turn on a dime. She’s used to it. Try it. You might want to take a polo lesson or two to learn how to handle her a little bit better. She’s used to a lot of hardware.

[asb_own_me]

When I tried her (rode her three times before buying) the seller put her in a simple eggbutt snaffle. I know she’s used to more hardware, but she went great. Maybe it is that simple - she needs more “hardware”, as you put it, to go successfully in a group. I will definitely try a pelham.

The other issue now is my fear. After what happened today, how can I trust that it won’t happen again? I know different bitting can help. I’m at the place now where I’m wondering, “What if it doesn’t help?” It’s fresh, just happened this afternoon, so maybe I won’t feel so freaked in a few days. But right now, that’s how I’m feeling.

Re: polo - I was fortunate enough to start “stick and balling” this summer. It was a blast! A good friend’s husband plays and has a pro who comes every summer. He’s a great teacher

[gothedistance]

[I]I hunt in a Waterford, but I also have moments when I will haul my guy’s head around with an iron fist if he gets to putting a bit too much speed into his pace. If I suspect he is starting to disrespect the Waterford, he goes right back into his gag. He’s an endurance horse, so he’s used to going for miles…bitless!!! A total angel, too, on the endurance trail. A machine that just.never.tires.

Problem is, in the hunt field you HAVE to be under control. Will the “gallop out of control” situation happen again. You bet your sweet bippy it will. Again and again and again…until you figure out how to stop it in it’s tracks. And having the right bit is key.

So forget the half halts – hunting isn’t a namy-pamby “prance around in a circle” dressage ring. If you are going to stick with the Waterford, learn to employ the pulley rein and USE it! Or do what I do – fix the left hand on a HARD solid rein, and use the right for gentle/moderate/severe reminders to keep the speed under control. Works like a charm, even with my go-go machine of a critter who has top tenned in several 50 miles endurance rides and two 100 mile rides. We hunted this morning and had some whalloping good runs – and my guy stayed 100% in beautiful form and control with his Waterford AS LONG AS I KEPT THAT LEFT REIN SOLID AND TIGHT.

If you have no problem using double reins, put her in the gag. Gotta love that gag rein – I call them power brakes.
[/I]

[Beverley]

When I first started hunting, one of the horses I rode was an ex-polo mare. Ditto the advice on the pelham, even with that I had to run her into a tree to stop her once!

It could be that you are inadvertantly telling her to ‘go’ in polospeak- good advice to seek out a polo player to help you see what buttons she’s accustomed to.

Also- question- how often has she hunted? Could be she wanted to catch up to first flight if she’s used to hunting up front (depending on the wind they can smell 'em even if you can’t see 'em). If she’s new to hunting- well, 3-5 times out is the magical threshold, they know enough to either take to it like ducks to water or get ‘cute’ on you.

[Gestalt]

Holy crunchberry! I know exactly what you were feeling. Getting run away with is so not fun. I’m with the other poster in the “stronger bit, more hand” camp. I had a horse that bolted several times with me. I left him in a basic snaffle, but added a running martinggale. And I tell you, I was not easy on his face. Once I got him stopped, we backed up for about 20 feet and then went forward 20, stop, forward 20 feet, stop back up, forward, etc. By the time my breathing was under control his was not.

I thought the little snit was going to take us off the cliff. He’s a pretty good hand now, but he always goes in “full hardware”.

[asb_own_me]

gothedistance - I say half halt to let folks know that I wasn’t locked on her mouth. If you totally lock on the horse’s mouth, they will stop feeling the pressure after a little while. I never released, but I’d strong pull back, then see saw a little to keep whatever sensations I was able to communicate more fresh in her mouth. I was taught not to “lock” on a runaway’s mouth - they simply stop feeling it.

Beverly - this was her third time out, gate group each time. First time she was fine. Second time a person who sometimes whips in rode her (was looking for a new mount) but did not whip in off her, also rode in the gate group. Said the mare “ran off” and I was floored. First time out I never had an issue. She stood at checks, yawned, grazed, walked and trotted on a loose rein, etc. Today? Wouldn’t stand, pawed, backed up (another huge no-no in my book) and I’m kind of feeling like she had a bad time with the person who tried her out. Heavy hands + spurs and now this mare seems Un-Hap-Py.

gestalt - I love “holy crunchberry!” Gonna have to use that one for sure!

[Beverley]

I’m afraid, at hunt #3, you may have a horse that isn’t a fan of hunting, and it may have nothing to do with the other rider. If it were mine- next outing- definitely the pelham and perhaps a bit of lavender oil in the nostrils for aromatherapy. But I’d personally be prepared to head in early if she is upset out there.

I once had a young tb given to me that was soooo mellow, even at age 4, my kids could ride him in the arena. He was great 1st hunt, not as great 2nd hunt, came of the trailer in a lather for hunt #3 and started a bit of rearing just 15 minutes out. I gave him back to the friend- hunting for whatever reason just freaked him out.

[asb_own_me]

Beverly - I’ve heard of that happening. I’m hoping that’s not the case…but it could very well be.

Could you tell me more about the lavender oil?

[Bogie]

Before giving up on her I’d try two things: 1) Gag bit and 2) a pro ride.

We have a pro at our hunt who has helped several people start their horses. His philosophy is that it takes at least 6 hunts to know whether or not you have a hunter. Sometimes they are fine the first few hunts but then they get a bit wild.

Now I can completely understand why you feel shaken by your experience. It’s no fun to get run off with. Your anticipation of having it happen again may make it harder for both of you at the next hunt. Sometimes it’s just a good idea to hand over the reins for a few rides.

I have a horse that is anxious and can get quite worked up. Bitting him up doesn’t work but adding a running martingale helps a lot. It gives me the extra control that I need to make the snaffle work.

I also did a lot of work this summer on one-rein stops. Now when I ride and use an opening rein he gets the message that he needs to listen to me. Have you tried that with your horse? It’s something you really need to practice at slower gaits before trying it out in the hunt field but it’s a very effective way of breaking the momentum of a bolting horse by disengaging the hindquarters.

Good luck and stay safe!

[Calamber]

Whoa Nelly!

Is there anything else that has changed vis a vis this horses’ pasture time, feed types or supplements? A friend’s horse recently went on a bolt in a ring and caused a head injury to my friend because of a bad reaction to a supplement. I am not a proponent of more hardware since sometimes it is severe pain that brings on the bolt as I am sure you have considered. This is a very scary situation and requires a different strategy immediately, would want to exhaust a few other routes before going to a gag with a new horse whose history is not quite certain.

Have you checked to see where the bit hits her mouth when you are using full leverage back and forth on the see saw? That is, is there a port in the bit, is it possible it is hitting the roof of the mouth or badly twisting her tongue, does the tongue have any scars on it, pull it out and look at it to be sure. I rode a mare who had a tongue tie scar and thankfully I saw it before I bitted her.

I know I may be scrambling here but there is some problem you need to figure out before you get to the more severe hardware, just make sure she does not have an oddly shaped mouth or some other physical deformity such as a lower palate. Perhaps that is why you were shown her by the previous owner in a simple eggbutt snaffle. Did she run off while playing polo? Is that possible to find out from other players if the owner will not own up?

I am sorry that you were so frightened but do be careful, this is not an easy problem and does need a bit more detective work or I would more likely suggest she not go out in the field for everyone’s safety.

Last question, as I just reread your post. Was she using a standing martingale when you first rode her, and when the first runoff in the field occurred?

[gothedistance]

@asb_own_me;4487968

gothedistance - I say half halt to let folks know that I wasn’t locked on her mouth. If you totally lock on the horse’s mouth, they will stop feeling the pressure after a little while. I never released, but I’d strong pull back, then see saw a little to keep whatever sensations I was able to communicate more fresh in her mouth. I was taught not to “lock” on a runaway’s mouth - they simply stop feeling it.

Oh, believe me - they still feel it. A “lock on” lets them know you mean business NOW, and doing a hard one rein stop can stop a bolter. See-sawing a mouth does squat. (Ask me how I know! :lol:) I had a bolter once, so I know what its like to be on an explosive bullet that is (virtually) out of control. It is a horrible feeling, so I completely empathize. You have to be severe sometimes to get the message across and get control back fast when the situation goes from bad to dangerous.

You didn’t tell us how she was doing during the early part of the hunt, or if the bolt was “head up in the air” (true bolt) or “head down” (I’m running 'cuz I wanna catch up). Losing two shoes meant the whole episode was nasty all around. Sorry about the bad experience. That really sucks big time.

I have to agree with Beverly. The excitement of hunting may just be too much for your horse. I’ve seen plenty of “dead quiet yawners” that bomb out in the hunt field because they just can’t take it.

You can try using ace and a stronger bit, and go for the “good experience” in the hunt field by retiring early for the next several hunts …but… I think you have your work cut out for you, especially since you now have to get over your own fear factor.

[asb_own_me]

[QUOTE=Bogie;4488251]

I also did a lot of work this summer on one-rein stops. Now when I ride and use an opening rein he gets the message that he needs to listen to me. Have you tried that with your horse? It’s something you really need to practice at slower gaits before trying it out in the hunt field but it’s a very effective way of breaking the momentum of a bolting horse by disengaging the hindquarters.[/QUOTE]
Pulley rein/one rein stops are great, and I thought about it. BUT - she was going so completely breakneck fast down that road that I was afraid she’s lose her balance…and lose me off her back in the process, onto that hard pack. Did I mention we were also going on a slight decline? :eek: But I will definitely take your advice on this and practice it at home and at the trot first!

@Calamber;4488389

Is there anything else that has changed vis a vis this horses’ pasture time, feed types or supplements?

Nope. She’s outside 24/7, gets a handful of feed, and a big round bale. Easy keeper.

@Calamber;4488389

Have you checked to see where the bit hits her mouth when you are using full leverage back and forth on the see saw? That is, is there a port in the bit, is it possible it is hitting the roof of the mouth or badly twisting her tongue, does the tongue have any scars on it, pull it out and look at it to be sure. I rode a mare who had a tongue tie scar and thankfully I saw it before I bitted her.

No port - it was a Waterford. The first hunt I took her out in a French link snaffle…she was fine, a little strong but fine.

@Calamber;4488389

Perhaps that is why you were shown her by the previous owner in a simple eggbutt snaffle. Did she run off while playing polo? Is that possible to find out from other players if the owner will not own up?

She was put in a snaffle for me to try her because they of course wanted to show her in a good light - as in, “she doesn’t need all the polo hardware to behave” type of thing. No history that I’ve heard of her running off on the polo field. She didn’t stay on that string because she wasn’t good enough to be a pro mount…didn’t love the mallets swinging in close quarters when they were all scuffling for the ball.

@Calamber;4488389

Last question, as I just reread your post. Was she using a standing martingale when you first rode her, and when the first runoff in the field occurred?

The first hunt I took her out on, yes she was wearing the standing martingale, and did fine. The second hunt, I wasn’t even there - and the rider didn’t have any type of martingale on her. That is where the first run-off happened. Yesterday, she was wearing the standing martingale again.

[QUOTE=gothedistance;4488417]
You didn’t tell us how she was doing during the early part of the hunt, [/QUOTE]
Sorry, I thought I did. She was keyed up at first, but was settling down more and more. This happened about 2 hours in.

@gothedistance;4488417

or if the bolt was “head up in the air” (true bolt) or “head down” (I’m running 'cuz I wanna catch up). Losing two shoes meant the whole episode was nasty all around. Sorry about the bad experience. That really sucks big time.

It was head up as well as she could - she was wearing the standing martingale. Found one shoe on the long walk back…couldn’t believe it was even in the road. Thought for sure it would have been flung far from the road!

@gothedistance;4488417

You can try using ace and a stronger bit, and go for the “good experience” in the hunt field by retiring early for the next several hunts …but… I think you have your work cut out for you, especially since you now have to get over your own fear factor.

I’ve never been a fan of Ace, but I’m going to try a pelham and see what happens.

If I think she’s going anywhere fast again, I will definitely get that one rein stop activated before she picks up all that momentum. When she went yesterday, I didn’t realize I wouldn’t be able to stop her, and by the time I could have used the one rein stop, I was afraid to.

Thanks everyone for your support and suggestions. It helps!

[gothedistance]

[I]Knowing now that she was head up bolting – a “true” bolt – I think what you did was exactly what I would have done - trying for control keeping a straight head while letting her run it out straight - considering that cranking her head around while bolting down a hard packed road may have ended up with a very serious accident. It was hard to tell in your opening post if the horse was just being a butt-head, or it was really bolting.

Kudos to you - that is a position that I have only been in twice. Immediately got rid of both that did it - one back to the owner, the other right back to the auction - and never want to be in that situation again.

Please remember – once a horse has done this, it will do it again. The triggers are often hard to see - what looks normal to us may be the thing that tips the scales in the horse’s mind. Any bit, no matter how harsh, may or may not work. Once the head is up as high as a horse can get it, you have lost any and all control. If she does this again in the woods, the results could be horrible - not only for you, but for others, and/or the hounds.

PLEASE be careful. Seriously. You sound like such a nice person and …honestly…hunting should be enjoyed with a horse that enjoys it.[/I]

[LauraKY]

[QUOTE=Beverley;4487943]
When I first started hunting, one of the horses I rode was an ex-polo mare. Ditto the advice on the pelham, even with that I had to run her into a tree to stop her once!

It could be that you are inadvertantly telling her to ‘go’ in polospeak- good advice to seek out a polo player to help you see what buttons she’s accustomed to.[/QUOTE]

Keep an eye the position of your hands. Remember in polo they’re neck reining with one hand. Low is slow, higher is fast, just like a throttle! They’re used to quick take-offs!

[Beverley]

@asb_own_me;4488176

Beverly - I’ve heard of that happening. I’m hoping that’s not the case…but it could very well be.
Could you tell me more about the lavender oil?

A groom for an local eventing rider put me onto it a few years ago- when my gelding, taken to a busy new location for xc schooling, looked like he was about to have a case of brain cramps- she pulled a bottle out of her pocket, dabbed a bit of oil in his nostrils, and that sufficed to get him over his qualms and paying attention to his rider again. Variation on a theme- years ago when showing studs in halter classes we’d put Vicks Vapo Rub in their noses so they couldn’t smell any mares on the show grounds that might be in season. Lavender is supposed to be a relaxing smell- certainly worked for my guy, haven’t needed it on others as yet! I’m not a fan of using ace (but that’s a whole nuther thread or ten in this forum!)- and particularly wouldn’t for a bolter.

[jubilee43]

As a polo player and sometimes foxhunter on all my polo ponies-let me say that half- halts with the bridle pi$$ them off. We do everything with seat control and no contact on the bit until you have to stop now. I rode a great polo pony when i was younger and didn’t understand this. We were herding sheep, of all things, and he ran off with me. I had too much contact and wasn’t listening to him tell me not to worry. I seriously would have a polo player show you what this mare is used to in terms of what buttons to push and how to ride her right. Mine have all enjoyed hunting since they get to think and polo ponies usually enjoy that alot.

[asb_own_me]

I was talking through this with a friend today - I’m going to go out and check her teeth this afternoon. I’m sorry - apologies to the mare! - for not considering this sooner.

I did borrow a pelham to try her in later this week after she gets her two missing wheels put back on (and teeth checked). We shall see what happens!

[IFG]

Two other things that worked to reform my former bolter are:

1. You can never let him get to the out of control speed. I don’t know how to describe it, but I know right before it kicks in, and I snatch on the curb a bit.

2. I let the reins a bit loose, then I snatch one rein by flicking my wrist, then the other. It is just enough to snap him to attention and set him off balance so that I can get some control. On my former race horse, if I have a constant pull, he will just pull back and pick up a head of steam, the loosen and snatch work to remind him that I am up there. Also, if I have a chance to let him go flat out safely (like running up a hill), I let him go for it and tire himself out. Makes him much more manageable the rest of the time.