Have an older Arab that has been acting a little fizzy the last few weeks…realized the barn has been feeding some 2nd cutting…it is quite green. Always remember vets telling me first cutting is better, especially for Arabs. Anyone else experience a horse being more goofy/hyper/spooky when eating a richer 2nd cutting hay?
Around here 2nd cutting is way more nutritious than 1st cutting.
That said, my Paint x Appendix mare has a split personality. Grudging dopey dude string paint or super forward green eventer brain. Over the past several years I have been trying to get the super forward run for miles trace of TB personality to manifest itself more often.
I have not found any food to reliably do that. Though bad hay can make her lethargic.
So I’d assume your horse is just feeling his good natural self 
on good hay. It’s not making him crazy. It’s just letting his natural star shine
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Is there alfalfa in the second cutting? It can cause the random horse to perk up a bit. My mare was hotter on alfalfa mix than she is on our grass/ clover mix. I wouldn’t have believed it until I experienced it firsthand. Nothing major, but enough that I noticed.
If the protein level in the hay is higher, it can cause gut pain, which can manifest during riding as “hot” behaviour, “touchy”, “irritable” behavior. The symptoms are similar to that of ulcers. Flinching when groomed on the sides, girth and belly region, general discomfort. If you have a horse like this, you need lower protein levels in both hay and grain. Hope that it is something as simple as this!
How does higher protein cause gut pain?
What is “higher”?
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Higher protein just made my horses fatter. Which they did not need. It did not change their behavior nor give them gut pain.
How? I dunno. Perhaps the same way a human feels gut pain from eating a very high protein diet? It’s just what I found out by attempting to find the source of the issue that two of my mares exhibited, ulcer-like symptoms, irritability, girthy, gut pain, could even call it “hyper”, and finally even colic. What solved the problem was feeding a lower protein diet. Solved it in a couple of days with both of them at the same time. And I tried a multitude of other solutions, consulted vets, for years, and got no help with this that was successful. Until I put 2 + 2 together, and tried eliminating alfalfa and other high protein sources in their diets. Presto, problem fully solved- it was that simple. Though the symptoms are ulcer-like, and feeding alfalfa is a recommendation for this, it makes the situation nothing but worse IF this is the issue. Second cutting hay with alfalfa content can be 18% to 22% protein levels around here. And no, not ALL horses have this problem, in over 50 years of feeding horses, I had never knowingly encountered it before (though now, with hindsight, I wonder), and often fed alfalfa or alfalfa mix hay, without an issue. Until these two mares got bad enough that I was forced to grasp at straws. The alfalfa hay I have is home grown, there is NOTHING sprayed on it, no “additives” that could have been causing the problem… just the protein. And not only the protein in the hay, also high protein (16%) in grain ration. Some commercial “supplements” also have high protein levels. With a horse who is “protein sensitive”, best to stay under 12% with bagged commercial feed. Feed low protein grass hay. It’s cheap and easy to try, if a person is having this issue with their horse. If this does not solve the problem, then one has to dig deeper, engage a veterinarian for other options. Best to “start” with the simplest and easiest and cheapest option to try as a solution, and go from there IMO. Since then, I have run into other trainers who have mentioned that some horses get “irritable” and “difficult” on alfalfa hay. It’s gut pain that makes them irritable or difficult. Gut pain that can turn into colic.
Horses, like people, react differently to different foods. My old horse did not do well on alfalfa - in any significant amounts, it made him excitable, nervous, unfocussed like ADHD. (not usable energy) We even tried once when we cut his grain so significantly so that his protein and calories were actually lower. Similar effect. It was a shame since we had lovely mixed grass/alfalfa hay that he could not have! Current horse has had alfalfa cubes and has not reacted in the same way.
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Where is it listed that a high protein diet cause gut pain in people?
Define “very high”?
It’s just what I found out by attempting to find the source of the issue that two of my mares exhibited, ulcer-like symptoms, irritability, girthy, gut pain, could even call it “hyper”, and finally even colic. What solved the problem was feeding a lower protein diet.
What did you change? Dropped alfalfa for grass hay? Dropped or reduced soy?
Protein gets the blame for a lot of things when it has nothing to do with the protein, and everything to do with the source of the protein.
Until I put 2 + 2 together, and tried eliminating alfalfa and other high protein sources in their diets.
Well there you go. You know that some horses are sensitive enough, maybe not quite an allergy, to be reactive, yes? Why do you think it was the protein?
Lots of studies have been done on high protein diets, largely (that I know of) in foals to try to induce DOD issues like the myth (based on a bad study) claims. Not only did they not in induce DOD issues, surely they would have discovered “gut issues” with diets that were 200% of daily requirements
Presto, problem fully solved- it was that simple. Though the symptoms are ulcer-like, and feeding alfalfa is a recommendation for this, it makes the situation nothing but worse IF this is the issue. Second cutting hay with alfalfa content can be 18% to 22% protein levels around here. And no, not ALL horses have this problem, in over 50 years of feeding horses, I had never knowingly encountered it before (though now, with hindsight, I wonder), and often fed alfalfa or alfalfa mix hay, without an issue. Until these two mares got bad enough that I was forced to grasp at straws. The alfalfa hay I have is home grown, there is NOTHING sprayed on it, no “additives” that could have been causing the problem… just the protein. And not only the protein in the hay, also high protein (16%) in grain ration. Some commercial “supplements” also have high protein levels. With a horse who is “protein sensitive”, best to stay under 12% with bagged commercial feed. Feed low protein grass hay. It’s cheap and easy to try, if a person is having this issue with their horse. If this does not solve the problem, then one has to dig deeper, engage a veterinarian for other options. Best to “start” with the simplest and easiest and cheapest option to try as a solution, and go from there IMO. Since then, I have run into other trainers who have mentioned that some horses get “irritable” and “difficult” on alfalfa hay. It’s gut pain that makes them irritable or difficult. Gut pain that can turn into colic.
You’ve made a giant leap what 1 aspect of a diet - protein - and made it the bad guy, when there 1) aren’t any studies showing high protein diets lead to gut pain, and 2) considering the various other factors that cause horses to react.
Horses can absolutely be sensitive and downright allergic to alfalfa. And it’s even an allergy to the type of protein in the alfalfa.
It is not protein as a whole that caused the problem.
Horses need X grams protein, period, based on age, weight, and workload. The % of the diet that protein makes up is 100% predicated by how many calories that horse needs.
That means is is not valid to say “keep a diet under 12% protein” or “don’t feed a feed more than 10% protein”. because that means nothing without context of total calories and total pounds of that X% protein product fed.
5lb of a 12% feed is 272gm protein.
Let’s say the horse is working pretty hard and/or is on the bigger side, and needs 900gm protein.
Let’s say his hay is low quality and only 6% protein, and he eats 20lb. That’s 544gm protein.
Added to the 272gm, that’s only 816gm - not enough.
What about a 30% ration balancer? Too much protein?
Alfalfa is the cause of issues for some horses, absolutely. But it is not because it’s “high protein” How do you explain horses who get “irritable” and “difficult” on 1lb of alfalfa pellets? Surely that’s not a high protein diet.
Don’t confused details.
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I actually just read a study stating that even as high as 2gm protein per pound body weight for people is not unhealthy. That’s pretty darn high.
Are you sure it is the protein with the alfalfa? And not switching from grass to legume? My horse has a really hard time with alfalfa and gets really miserable in her gut if she gets it without introducing it a tiny bit at a time.
I was surprised when a skin test for allergies was done, that my mare had the HIGHEST mark for alfalfa…amongst many other allergies. Explained me once trying alfalfa pellets (thinking of a stomach coating idea) while we were also treating w Omeprazole and in 24 hours she was acting bizarre. Didn’t know at the time that’s what it was but knew the only thing that had changed was the alfalfa and stopped immediately. Just food for thought. Yes, pun intended. 
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Are you sure it is the protein with the alfalfa? And not switching from grass to legume? My horse has a really hard time with alfalfa and gets really miserable in her gut if she gets it without introducing it a tiny bit at a time.
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