I can think of a whole bunch of other contraindications to massage, but they only apply to humans so it’s sort of moot.
So if the legislation is proposing that only a vet can do these things, I would agree it’s kind of strange. I’d feel sorry for any vet that felt he/she had to pick up skills in six different kinds of alternative therapies to feel as though they were able to offer their clients what they wanted. But NO regulation is not the answer, either. I’d fully support some sort of governing body for para-medical and alternative therapies for horses, and people. However, a call to “wake up” and protest this kind of arrangement seems as if it would be misguided if the call was simply to squash any sort of arrangement where regulation was mandated/enforced.
FWIW, this is already the law in Ohio and has been for some time. I believe it is the same in other states as well. However, I still know many, many people who practice either dentistry, massage or chiro that are not licensed veterinarians. My point being that there is little to no enforcement of the law. I think it may only become a problem if someone has a complaint
And I know of people who have gotten ‘cease and desist’ letters from the court:yes: And are threatened with being charged with ‘practicing medicine without a license’, this is a FELONY and in some states could get up to 10yrs in jail!
Please contact the legislators in Indiana and tell them to vote this law down!
The veterinarians are doing this because they want the monopoly on horse care. There are many other ways to help horses, soon it will be that you can’t administer shots or pills to your own horse either. Did you read all the links? Did you read this one… http://medtech.syrene.net/forum/archive/index.php?t-2391.html
In 1997, amid great fanfare, the American Veterinary Medical Association (AVMA) announced that several transnational pharmaceutical companies, along with a major animal food company had formed a “strategic partnership” for the purpose of improving the financial fortunes of the veterinary industry as a whole. This new partnership is not just the same old corporate sponsorship at trade shows and sporting competitions for advertising purposes, this is a serious donation of $1 million or more a year plus assignment of personnel to the newly-formed National Commission on Veterinary Economic Issues (NCVEI) to assist in strategic planning to renovate the veterinary business as a whole. NCVEI proudly lists its founding sponsors as Bayer, Hill’s Pet Nutrition, Merial (a joint venture of Aventis & Merck), Novartis, Pfizer, and VPI Pet Insurance. Other regular sponsors include Fort Dodge, CareCredit, and Western Veterinary Conference. A minor coincidence in this new “strategic partnership” is that the head of AVMA, who cut the deal, now is an employee of one of the founding sponsors.
Concurrent with the Task Force guidelines project was the development of a model law that is now being used by vet licensing boards in all 50 states to pass brutal anti-customer DVM monopoly laws that has only one goal in mind, to protect and increase the incomes of veterinarians and their Sugar Daddy, Big Pharma.
To make sure you understand the implications of this policy, which is being promoted in passage of new laws across the US, is that DVMs, who have no knowledge, understanding, or training in any natural healing art, have the right to tell YOU, the animal owner, what you can and cannot do to help your animal.
PLEASE LET US REPEAT, the goal here is to CONTROL YOU and what YOU can do for YOUR animal. It is not about the health and safety of the animal. Since natural healing arts are extremely safe and the practice of DVMs, as a modern medical healing art, has the potential of being extremely risky and life threatening, vets have never publicly argued safety as their justification for passage of DVM monopoly laws. They can’t.
So once again, it’s about the almighty dollar! And control!
FWIW, this is already the law in Ohio and has been for some time. I believe it is the same in other states as well. However, I still know many, many people who practice either dentistry, massage or chiro that are not licensed veterinarians. My point being that there is little to no enforcement of the law. I think it may only become a problem if someone has a complaint
And I know of people who have gotten ‘cease and desist’ letters from the court:yes: And are threatened with being charged with ‘practicing medicine without a license’, this is a FELONY and in some states could get up to 10yrs in jail!
Please contact the legislators in Indiana and tell them to vote this law down!
The veterinarians are doing this because they want the monopoly on horse care. There are many other ways to help horses, soon it will be that you can’t administer shots or pills to your own horse either. Did you read all the links? Did you read this one… http://medtech.syrene.net/forum/archive/index.php?t-2391.html
In 1997, amid great fanfare, the American Veterinary Medical Association (AVMA) announced that several transnational pharmaceutical companies, along with a major animal food company had formed a “strategic partnership” for the purpose of improving the financial fortunes of the veterinary industry as a whole. This new partnership is not just the same old corporate sponsorship at trade shows and sporting competitions for advertising purposes, this is a serious donation of $1 million or more a year plus assignment of personnel to the newly-formed National Commission on Veterinary Economic Issues (NCVEI) to assist in strategic planning to renovate the veterinary business as a whole. NCVEI proudly lists its founding sponsors as Bayer, Hill’s Pet Nutrition, Merial (a joint venture of Aventis & Merck), Novartis, Pfizer, and VPI Pet Insurance. Other regular sponsors include Fort Dodge, CareCredit, and Western Veterinary Conference. A minor coincidence in this new “strategic partnership” is that the head of AVMA, who cut the deal, now is an employee of one of the founding sponsors.
Concurrent with the Task Force guidelines project was the development of a model law that is now being used by vet licensing boards in all 50 states to pass brutal anti-customer DVM monopoly laws that has only one goal in mind, to protect and increase the incomes of veterinarians and their Sugar Daddy, Big Pharma.
To make sure you understand the implications of this policy, which is being promoted in passage of new laws across the US, is that DVMs, who have no knowledge, understanding, or training in any natural healing art, have the right to tell YOU, the animal owner, what you can and cannot do to help your animal.
PLEASE LET US REPEAT, the goal here is to CONTROL YOU and what YOU can do for YOUR animal. It is not about the health and safety of the animal. Since natural healing arts are extremely safe and the practice of DVMs, as a modern medical healing art, has the potential of being extremely risky and life threatening, vets have never publicly argued safety as their justification for passage of DVM monopoly laws. They can’t.
So once again, it’s about the almighty dollar! And control!
Interesting, considering that this is an industry that is showing fewer and fewer large animal vets are graduating. Any time I see the word “sugar daddy” in an article, I automatically know that the article is opinion, NOT fact.
Do you think Jack Ruby is behind this? Maybe NASA started this as part of covering up the fake moon landings? Could the large pharmaceutical companies be owned by aliens who are trying to take over the world?
Face it, veterinary medicine is TINY money compared to human medicine. While it may be true that there is an effort to aid vets economically, I find that companies would expend much effort ($1 million is a tiny drop in the bucket) to corner a market that brings in a very small return, e.g. most vet drugs are considered margin drugs, unlikely.
<<but who’s going to protect the consumer from the lousy vets?>.
Uh, well, the law already protects you from them. Vets, after all, have to be licensed and are overseen by veterinary medical boards. Which is not always the case with alternative practitioners, as pointed out by others here.
As for the almighty dollar argument, well, the alternative practitioners aren’t out there doing their holistic medicine for free, either, so gimme a break.
I know of at least one state that is so concerned about the lack of large animal vets - they’re offering grants and other incentives to attract students to the profession.
I’m not sure veterinary medicine is as sexy and lucrative as folks like to think it is. At least large animal veterinary medicine.
I have no problem with alternative medicine, or with massage or acupuncture. But I’ll tell ya the reason such professions (for large animals) can’t get their voice heard.
Because you’re not organized. There is an incredible benefit to establishing yourself as a legitimate profession, including forming a guild or association, licensing, dues, code of ethics, and criteria for membership.
It’s that you can self police and weed out the bad apples, and also present a unified voice in your legislature.
Establishing your professions as true professions, and establishing a good working relationship with your counterparts in the veterinary lobby - will go a long way towards having jobs regulated out of existence.
If you don’t regulate yourself - someone else will. The logical choice would be licensed vets. So that’s what’s happening. Maybe there have been too many cases of idiots harming horses or fleecing owners; too many snake oil salesmen.
Anyway - it’s just my experience that to be an effective voice for a profession, you have to establish yourselves like the others have. Human and veterinary medicine aren’t the only areas in which this problem has surfaced. Consider it a growing pain.
All of this is regulated already in the form of licenses, etc. The vets are ‘protecting’ us from licensed people. NO ONE in certain states regardless of their qualifications can WORK on a horse. They must be a vet.
What do you mean, if? And it’s not a PROPOSAL, it’s a law. IN PLACE.
But NO regulation is not the answer, either. I’d fully support some sort of governing body for para-medical and alternative therapies for horses, and people.
Nor is no regulation being suggested as the answer either. There already is regulation. It doesn’t matter if you’re regulated, it matters if you’re a vet. You are very good at obfuscating this argument.
By making it illegal for anyone that is not a vet to work on a horse.
[quote]
If it means my chiro/acupuncturist has to go get certified, so be it, get that license and I have to pay a touch more. Oh wait, she already has it because I wouldn’t dare let someone crack my horses that doesn’t have a license.
No, it doesn’t mean that. Not good enough. Has to be a vet.
[quote=ArtilleryHill;3042601]
<<but who’s going to protect the consumer from the lousy vets?>.
Uh, well, the law already protects you from them. Vets, after all, have to be licensed and are overseen by veterinary medical boards. Which is not always the case with alternative practitioners, as pointed out by others here. [/QUOTE]
Oh right, the good vets are protecting us from the bad vets. So that approach should work for all the alternative practitioners too. At least, they would know something about the alternative practice.
As for the almighty dollar argument, well, the alternative practitioners aren’t out there doing their holistic medicine for free, either, so gimme a break.
Nobody can “protect us” from every form of malpractice, evil intent, or just plain lousy outcomes. I tend to not fall hard onto the “conspiracy theory” side of things. I’m not trying to obfuscate anything. I think it’s strange and stupid to allow only veterinarians to practice alternative medicine on animals. I would support having these kinds of laws changed. I don’t, however, think that total de-regulation is a good solution to BAD regulation. If it’s in the hands of “vets only”, at least you know that generally speaking the person coming out to work on your horse has a solid background in medicine and animal “health and disease”. I’d vastly prefer that to some mail-order crackpot trying to detoxify one of my animals with some nutso regimen. :lol: If there are “bad vets” out there, there are means of dealing with them. How does the general public “deal with” snake oil charlatans? Other than “caveat emptor”?
As J Swan said, where are the efforts on the part of alternative practitioners to change things for the better by organizing and providing legitimate alternatives?
Could you cite some facts to support your position?
A lot depends on wether you define "massage, aromatherapy, homeopathy, ultrasound therapy, electro-magnetic, chiropractic, magnets, lasers, " as Veterinary Medicine.
[QUOTE=Lookout;3042982]
Correct. They have to look for alternative sources of income.[/QUOTE]
Uh, you broke out a section of a comment to make a poor point.
Large animal vet numbers are diminishing which means their expertise is in demand and as such they can make good money (e.g. JSwan’s noting of grants) just by simply being a good vet. They don’t need the help of large corps.
My point was that large corps don’t need to corner the market in veterinary medicine because that market, financially, is miniscule compared to the human medicine.
What I see is a bunch of whining from folks who refuse to actually stand up and organize themselves as well as refusing to working to become accepted in the medical community as a viable mode of treatment. Obviously, it can work as we have DDSs, RNs, PAs, ODs, EMTs, Ph.D.s, etc. all who work within the medical establisment and all who practice specific forms of medicine. Why can’t farriers, dentists, and alternative practitioners work within the frame of veterinary medicine to create organizations and licensing specific to their expertise?
Maybe it is time to man up and do something productive instead of screaming that we are all going to die if things go in a certain direction.
Uh, by the way, LASERS and ANY RADIATION EMMITTING DEVICE must be regulated and certified by the FDA if it iused to treat, diagnose or in any way be used to affect tissue. So, why not the practioner?
No one is arguing for total deregulation! This is what I mean by obfuscating. Alright then, strawman argument. Argue a point no one has made.
If it’s in the hands of “vets only”, at least you know that generally speaking the person coming out to work on your horse has a solid background in medicine and animal “health and disease”.
So what. What about when that ‘solid background’ gets you nowhere and you want an alternative. Why should they be the ones to say whether or not an alternative practitioner with a solid background in their field should be allowed to work on your animal when they have no background, solid or otherwise, in it.
I’d vastly prefer that to some mail-order crackpot trying to detoxify one of my animals with some nutso regimen. :lol:
Isn’t it nice IF you have that choice. What if someone else feels differently than you. Where is their freedom of choice.
If there are “bad vets” out there, there are means of dealing with them. How does the general public “deal with” snake oil charlatans? Other than “caveat emptor”?
The alternative practices have their own certifications, boards, qualifications, etc., and they’re not poking their noses into vets’ business and trying to tell the public whether those vets are qualifed or not.
As J Swan said, where are the efforts on the part of alternative practitioners to change things for the better by organizing and providing legitimate alternatives?
The alternative practitioners as I said, have their own internal organizations that already do this. They do not have the funding, like the AVMA did (from the pharmaceutical agencies) to PASS A LAW which takes millions of dollars in lobbying. The AVMA would never have been able to do this unassisted either. Given a choice between supporting alternative practitioners and vets, pharmaceuticals are certainly going to choose vets, their customers.
yep....everyone wants to be the head vet on call for the Sheiks third USA TB holding...but no body wants to trudge out to [B]pull dead piglets [/B]out of a 600 lb sow....nobody wants to [B]TB test cattle [/B]at the sales....no body wants to [B]inspect carcasses[/B] no one wants to [B]palpate a 200 cow herd[/B] in the dead of winter
face it....a buncha subdivision raised girly girls (whose closest thing to a "farm call" was going to the boarding barn Daddy kept her pony)...[B]DO NOT [/B]want the physical labor involved in large animal practice....
Large animal vets may be in greater demand for whatever reason, but as you can always see on this board for example, the majority of horse owners are not willing to pony up reasonable fees to pay for their vets. So no, just because there are some grants, I don’t see vets’ incomes skyrocketing without the assistance of adding services.
My point was that large corps don’t need to corner the market in veterinary medicine because that market, financially, is miniscule compared to the human medicine.
One of the surest ways in business to increase your income is by increasing the range and quantity of services you provide. “Alternative” practices in that context look like a cash ‘cow’ as it were, to vets.
What I see is a bunch of whining from folks who refuse to actually stand up and organize themselves as well as refusing to working to become accepted in the medical community as a viable mode of treatment. Obviously, it can work as we have DDSs, RNs, PAs, ODs, EMTs, Ph.D.s, etc. all who work within the medical establisment and all who practice specific forms of medicine. Why can’t farriers, dentists, and alternative practitioners work within the frame of veterinary medicine to create organizations and licensing specific to their expertise?
Who died and put veterinary medicine on top of the food chain? (other than themselves of course). And it’s pretty hard for those alternative practitioners to become part of the establishment if the veterinary community has already co-opted their profession and livelihood :rolleyes: .
Maybe it is time to man up and do something productive instead of screaming that we are all going to die if things go in a certain direction.
Well, maybe they can find some generous benefactor like the AVMA did, to UNPASS the law that has already been passed, and pass their own law.
Uh, by the way, LASERS and ANY RADIATION EMMITTING DEVICE must be regulated and certified by the FDA if it iused to treat, diagnose or in any way be used to affect tissue. So, why not the practioner?
There is a great dentist in FL right now that is being prosecuted as a felon for doing his trade. He was practicing for years before the law was put into effect. He has been through schooling and has been involved in teaching vets this practice. He is in fact licensed through the state of Florida to practice dentistry on the race tracks. He is STILL being prosecuted for doing dentistry on horses. So there is a bit of a battle going on.
I am not against there being some sort of licensing or testing to allow others to practice alternative methods. Right now the laws that are being passed state by state are limiting these practices only to the vets. A lot of vets are very anti-alternative, so they won’t even bother to learn these methods. We will lose access to this option as a horse owner.
There are not enough in numbers of these alternative healers and so on to make an inpact on the laws. IF they band together and stick their heads up, it becomes easier for the vets to identify these indiviuals and seek legal action against them. We as horse owners need to put our voices into the conversation. Whether you use alternative methods or not, Wouldn’t you like them available if you need another approach to a problem?
