Horse Pins Ears When Asked to Move Forward: Help!

[princesspony]

Hello! I would really appreciate some help with my mare.

Quinn is a four year old Arabian and is mostly very well behaved. I’ve been working with her since she was born, but she only recently became mine. She is my first horse and though I’ve been doing this horse thing for a while, I am by no means a horse trainer.

Quinn is very calm and levelheaded, especially for an Arabian. She is very sweet and is usually willing on the ground. However, as she has gotten older and I’ve asked for more work from her, she’s becoming more and more sour.

On the lunge, she will walk and trot out fine, and she will canter when asked, but not without first pinning her ears. Once she decides she is done working, sometimes she will refuse to canter altogether. She’s so calm, in fact, that no amount of pressure and noise on my part will get her to move. The couple of times that I’ve resorted to smacking her butt with my rope, she’s just kind of looked at me like, “Oh really?”

She’s young so I try to keep the sessions short, but I hate to end on a bad note. I try to reward a willing transition with a few easy strides of canter and then rest. If the ears go back, she’s gotta run hard. But the more I make her work, the angrier she gets. She even starts to swing her butt towards me. I’m just getting a sense of resentment from her about being made to work, and a lot of disrespect.

Vet has given me the all clear and says shes not in pain, just needs an attitude adjustment.

I would appreciate any advice with my little girl! Thank you!

[KBC]

If she canters when asked who cares what her ears are doing, the important thing is the easy transition and quality of the gait, focus on that, not the ears. At the moment it sounds like you are actually punishing her for doing the right thing, so you are in a viscous circle, you work her if she pins the ears, she pins them because she knows canter might mean being worked.

She’s an Arab, she’s smart, it’s so easy to teach them the wrong things.

[Scribbler]

I would suggest connecting with a good local Colt starter for some lessons in groundwork. It sounds like you might be getting in over your head, and a few lessons would help both of you a lot.

[retiredhorse]

@princesspony

She’s so calm, in fact, that no amount of pressure and noise on my part will get her to move. The couple of times that I’ve resorted to smacking her butt with my rope, she’s just kind of looked at me like, “Oh really?”

That’s not calmness, that’s disobedience – which may stem from confusion, pain/discomfort (even if not limping), tiredness/being unfit, lack of work ethic. In any case, she’s not going forward when you ask.

Whatever you’ve been doing, it sounds like things are not progressing or are actually regressing, so I strongly suggest enlisting the help of a trainer/cowboy/groundperson well versed in starting horses, who can watch you and the horse, and offer you in-person/in-action advice, which the internet cannot do.

Could be you have to fix your timing or body language or how you are asking/rewarding or when to end a session. Could be that she finds it difficult to canter on a circle/lunge line, especially if she’s not very naturally balanced at the canter. Could be she’s bored. Could be confused about canter cue. Could be a combination of these things.

[WildLittleWren]

I strongly suggest working with a trainer, if you are not already. Also, I would highly recommend another vet exam, as it could be any number of issues, or it could be lack of work ethic and attitude, but rule out physical issues THOROUGHLY first. Have you had xrays of her back? If it comes down to work ethic or attitude after another thorough physical exam, please seek out a trainer. These types of issues perpetuate and escalate of you don’t know what to do. Good luck OP!

[CFFarm]

I may be as simple as you are "over cueing’. Do you prepare with a half-halt before asking for an upward gait? since she is sensitive as you say. Try half-halt, then “think” upward cue and see what happens.

[Periwinkle]

Don’t ask for canter toward the end of your session, when she’s physically and mentally tired. Canter earlier in the session, then work at the trot and walk, particularly on sensitizing her to the aids for upward transitions. Avoid getting into the situation where she says “I’m done” and you’re asking for something hard (ie. canter).

She might also be bored. How often do you longe her? Working her fewer days per week might make her more physically and mentally able to do what you ask when you do work her. Or give her a week off and try again. Sometimes a break is just what they need. My Arab always comes back better than ever from a short break.

[JBD]

Four isn’t a baby although you want to match the work asked for with her fitness level. It’s good that you’ve had her checked for lameness but I’d keep it in the back of my mind that something physical may make her unwilling to canter. I do have Arabians and even the lazy ones will canter.

If if it was my horse, I’d add a lunge whip instead of using the lunge line to move her forward. You don’t have to hit her, a snap of the whip behind them is usually incentive enough. Once you’re able to get a canter that lasts more than a few steps, maybe have someone video. Most horses canter willingly (or maniacally) while lunging. I do think it’s odd that she will trot willingly but not canter.

[retiredhorse]

@JBD

I do think it’s odd that she will trot willingly but not canter.

Anecdotally, I rode a 4 year old who had issues picking up one canter lead. We all initially attributed it to horse being green/needing more training, since that’s what he was in for. Turns out he has arthritis in one fetlock, that I think made it difficult for him to canter that way. This is one reason pain/discomfort is always suggested as one factor to keep in mind – even if they trot sound or are willing to keep trotting all day (it is frustrating when lameness is not obvious and not necessarily always the cause). Arthritis is managed and horse is still a very good trail horse for owner.

[kashmere]

That sounds like pain. Could be anywhere - feet, SI/Lumbar region, hocks, etc. Would be getting another set of eyes out and a vet.

[Jealoushe]

Agree it sounds pain related.

[merrygoround]

OP says vet has given the all clear. This is a four year old mare. Owner needs some experienced help to get things sorted out ASAP, because this mare has her number. Owner is slightly unsure, horse is absolutely sure. That’s the wrong way around. Horse needs some gentle firm persuasion to see the error of her ways.

[shiloh]

OP, I feel your pain. I had a horse just like that. Very frustrating. If you asked her to do something and she wasn’t feeling it, then it was no. Very calm. Just no. And you could beg, threaten, whine, beat - you name it and it wasn’t going to happen. Very often I felt that I was not going to win the battle, but by god I WAS going to win the war. I finally had to send her down the line to someone else - I got her to do some things and she learned I was not going to back down but we were a horrid match.

Evaluate that: it is not a criticism. Maybe she has your number. Maybe she figures you are a softie. Maybe she she’s just one of those horses that needs a particular person. (Mine needed a strong male figure or a very dominant female.) Also, find a trainer that specializes in stubborn/disobedient/whatever - not someone that will beat her. I don’t think that is necessary but someone that will outsmart her. Someone that will put her happy ass to work and show her what real work is not just the few things you are asking of her. Step back - have someone you trust look at your situation and discuss it with you.

[SuzieQNutter]

I have gone through this with my boy.

I have found a solution and believe me it will take patience. Teach slow and quick. You can do it in walk. You can do it in trot and eventually you will be able to do it in canter. Reward the slow. Reward the quick. Get that down pat before going to the next step. This does not use whip. When you want to slow say slow and tighten your thighs. When you want quick you say quick and relax your thighs.

Eventually she will slow when you say slow and tighten your thighs, she will go quick, when you say quick and relax your thighs. Eventually she will do it with the thighs only, naturally inside leg to outside rein should still be happnening with anything I say.

Then and I do this on the lunge as well I use the words trot on 3 times before I ask for canter.

So when I warm him up I start off in walk doing slow and quick. I go to trot and believe me it is a slow trot. He is cold backed and it is currently Winter here. I have to be patient and ask for quick and then ask for slow. I reward the slow as well as the quick. If you have done a circle or gone across the diagonal without doing a transition in the pace. You have gone too far. Don’t try quick too times in a row yet. He will go more forward with the slow then quick than the 2 x quick in a row.

Then once he is a little more forward in the trot. I use the trot on words and then he know sare going to canter. On the lunge I have started cantering him 3 times on the one rein before swapping, so now I do that under saddle and each time he canters he gets more forward.

I can now ask for forward and slow in the canter. I finally feel like we are getting somewhere. Now I can ask for quick 2 times or 3 times in a row in the trot and he goes more forward rather than ignoring.

Trying to push him forward meant him coming to a halt in the arena with his ears back. It ended up with me feeling sick from working too hard. It ended up with an unhappy horse. Now we have a happy horse with a happy rider. But believe me that first 15 minutes under saddle takes a hell of a lot of patience as even though you want to push faster you don’t and he is mincing along in a what would probably be wonderful jog in the Western World.

[demidq]

I agree with the above posters about getting some help here, but would suggest that she may well be bored if you are doing the same exercises each session. I have an Arab cross who is way too smart and is big into energy conservation - hers! I found it helpful to do lots of different things in different gaits- poles, work around pylons or barrels, lunge over a log up on the cross country course, around obstacles in the jumper ring, over tarpaulins etc- it made her think about what she was doing , and she was much more forward when she was interested. Mix it up! The worst thing you can do with an Arab is repeat an exercise over and over. Insist she do what you ask, reward extravagantly when she gets things right, ask one more time then move on. A lunge whip is definitely a good idea so she can’t discuss things too long. Now means now.

[kashmere]

@merrygoround

OP says vet has given the all clear. This is a four year old mare. Owner needs some experienced help to get things sorted out ASAP, because this mare has her number. Owner is slightly unsure, horse is absolutely sure. That’s the wrong way around. Horse needs some gentle firm persuasion to see the error of her ways.

Fair enough, but given that OP didn’t mention what was ruled out/how, there’s still a lot of opportunity for it to be pain related. Some vets are not good at lameness diagnoses. I ended up switching practices altogether after I kept being told “no, your horse is fine, she’s just a mare” with almost no investigation being done, and my suggestions of “well, can we x-ray? can we do XYZ” were met with nothing but “It wouldn’t really be useful,”

My mare turned out to have mild, very manageable (injections ~2x yearly) hock arthritis, and minor navicular changes that respond extremely well to corrective shoeing and a short run of previcox. Had I kept going with other vet, these things would only have gotten worse without treatment and she might not have been salvageable.

OP - my horse went from absolutely refusing to go forward at any pace under saddle other than an angry bucking leap to happily working and being a lovely little dressage horse.

I got hock x-rays and front feet x-rays to help diagnose. I work with a chiro to keep her comfortable, use corrective shoeing, make sure her saddle is correctly adjusted, and we just did a round of osphos. She has been completely sound since November when we started the corrective shoeing (save for a really spectacular stone bruise when she tore her shoe off in the pasture :rolleyes:)

Maybe you’ve already done exhaustive diagnostic testing. Maybe your vet, like my previous one did, just looked at your mare for a few minutes on the longe and said “nah she’s just being a mare.”

Just food for thought. It sounds like pain, to me.

[merrygoround]

kashmere-We’re talking about a green 4 year old here. Seldom do 4 year olds have the pathology you mention.

And also, this sounds a though it may be an unsure rider without an extensive tool box.

[kashmere]

@merrygoround

kashmere-We’re talking about a green 4 year old here. Seldom do 4 year olds have the pathology you mention.

And also, this sounds a though it may be an unsure rider without an extensive tool box.

For sure. I’ve worked with many a stubborn foolish green horse. I know the teenager “No thank you” stage. I get it, it may be a training issue. I also know that getting the “all clear” from a vet doesn’t objectively mean anything, and that 4 year old horses can - and many do - have issues that cause them pain. The same issues as my 14 year old? No, probably not, but pain nonetheless does fit the bill for causing this issue. Not saying training doesn’t, but I’m of the mind to be fairly exhaustive in ruling out pain first.

[retiredhorse]

@kashmere

Maybe you’ve already done exhaustive diagnostic testing. Maybe your vet, like my previous one did, just looked at your mare for a few minutes on the longe and said “nah she’s just being a mare.”

Yes, I’ve met vets and trainers like that. And one who said “if they want to get out of work, they have to limp.” Work them til they get it or they break. At which point, I suppose diagnosing the horse would be easier/more obvious than NQR or behavioral indicators that something isn’t right.

This reminds me of another horse I rode a little bit. This time a 5 year old, who I sat on and almost immediately thought “this horse is NQR”. For different owner, different trainer, was told horse is just green and unbalanced, and work him through it. This horse was more stoic than the 4 year old, who did act out when refusing to pick up canter, and would w/t/c both ways, maybe ears were back a bit, but otherwise no other very obvious indicators that horse was unsound. Just never felt right/good to me, like he didn’t push off both hind legs properly/evenly and didn’t take a connection to the bit well, even though he didn’t invert or again do anything obvious. And then he wouldn’t do a clean lead change. And then started stopping to jumps.

I heard he eventually was diagnosed with some sort of soft tissue injury, despite never feeling/looking lamer than intermittent NQR. This was like a year after I first sat on him, so of course I’m not 100% sure he had a soft tissue injury from the start. But it definitely felt like something was bothering him. Not sure what happened to him.

I do agree that it could be wholly a training issue, have sat on my share of recalcitrant and sound green beans too. But these kinds of lamenesses do happen in young horses too. May even be harder to diagnose than in an older horse where one might expect to have some maintenance/soundness issues. In any case, I think OP needs some practical/in-person help, from more experienced horse people (like trainer or vet), not internet diagnoses.

[MissAriel]

My 4 yo had a soft tissue stifle issue that showed up and intermittent bucking at the canter, and generally being behind the leg at the trot, that was not getting better with appropriate training. His was nothing that you would notice without a full lameness workup, and could easily be mistaken for young horse attitude. They don’t have to be limping to be in pain.

After we had him looked over by a good lameness vet we adjusted his work load and put him on IM Adequan. Six months later he is a brand new horse - much more forward, no bucking and much better attitude about working.

With a young horse that from the sounds of it has been worked on a circle/longe a lot, I would be sure to check stifles.