Horse pronating on back feet: spinoff from wringing hocks post

[Scribbler]

I was reading the wringing hocks thread with interest, but thought I would start a new thread as our problem is a little different.

Maresy has wide hips, and stands narrow under them; if her feet were as wide apart as her hips, she would be very ungainly back there! When she was green-broke, she almost rope-walked behind, and stood a bit tucked under or sickle hocked. As she’s gotten fitter, that has all disappeared. She now uses her hind end much better.

But she does still land/push off on the outside of her hind feet, and the wear patterns show that (she’s barefoot). Farrier works to keep her back feet level.

Horse gets semi-chronic wind-puffs on the hind fetlocks. Doesn’t seem to have any discomfort associated with them.

I feel like the puffs are getting more chronic, and less intermittent. I’ve used sport boots on her, to try to minimize the sideways bend of the fetlock; seems to help a little but the puffs won’t go away totally.

I might eventually get our vet out to take a look (he’s good with legs). I’ve never had flexions done, so it is possible there is a little stiffness in there.

Any thoughts?

[PNW_AMTS_Dealer]

Check balance….

http://www.thehorsemechanic.com/hoofcare.html

[digihorse]

Ignore that article for your mare. Sigh… it will make her worse. Take video of her moving from behind, both in the walk and the trot and then from the side. You must look to see how she wants to move over her feet… not how the shoer wants her to move. If you trim these horse too low on the inside, you force the stifle and hip to be more open… like being in the gynaecologist stirrups… If you watch, you will probably see that from stance to breakover, the leg from the hip down changes its position so it ends up a little to the inside toward the centerline just before it breaks over, actually making the distance between the hocks a little more, but keeping the angles of the hip/stifle closed… with the stifle pointing forward through its stride and not being forced to pop to the outside and then back straight. Trim to the biomechanics of the individual movement, and not some “rule” for looking at the bottom of a foot.

[buck22]

I agree with digihorse. I have a gelding that is cow hocked and sickle hocked. Not terrible, but its there. I’ve been trimming him since I’ve owned him. He wears his hinds according to his hind leg conformation. Its odd looking if you know what you’re looking at. I used to sight down his hocks to even his heels but its never been a benefit to him. Over the years he’s demonstrated to me that he has his own distinct preferred angle and way of going. I’ve learned to honor it.

He benefits from front shoes when in work. Curious, I asked my farrier to tack on some hind shoes. He was sore through his hocks and hips from day one. I let it go for a little over a week to see if he’d improve. He did, but not by much, so I had the farrier out to pull them. When I inspected the shoes, he had started wearing them the way he wears his feet.

I’ve learned to just follow what his sole plane is telling me to do when I trim him now. Its the only unfailing indicator I have when I trim him, as his feet are a bit of an optical illusion due to his conformation.

[buck22]

I agree with digihorse. I have a gelding that is cow hocked and sickle hocked. Not terrible, but its there. I’ve been trimming him since I’ve owned him. He wears his hinds according to his hind leg conformation. Its odd looking if you know what you’re looking at. I used to sight down his hocks to even his heels but its never been a benefit to him. Over the years he’s demonstrated to me that he has his own distinct preferred angle and way of going. I’ve learned to honor it.

He benefits from front shoes when in work. Curious, I asked my farrier to tack on some hind shoes. He was sore through his hocks and hips from day one. I let it go for a little over a week to see if he’d improve. He did, but not by much, so I had the farrier out to pull them. When I inspected the shoes, he had started wearing them the way he wears his feet.

I’ve learned to just follow what his sole plane is telling me to do when I trim him now. Its the only unfailing indicator I have when I trim him, as his feet are a bit of an optical illusion due to his conformation.

[Scribbler]

Doing videos (and playing them back in slow motion) is a great idea.

I have a good farrier who trims, and works to keep the back feet symmetrical. Digi and Buck, can you clarify? It sounds to me a bit like you are suggesting that the horse should be allowed to develop and keep her uneven back feet, but I must be misreading you. Definitely she is more comfortable just after a trim than later in the trim cycle when her outside walls have worn down to make her pronating more severe.

[digihorse]

That is exactly what I am saying. For some horses, symmetrical is wrong. You are assuming that pronating is wrong for her. It may not be. Without seeing the horse, can’t say. I will tell you that my guy… it IS wrong. Very much so. There is a balance between too high on the inside heel, and too low. Its tricky… which is why he will never have shoes on behind. Sometimes it is taking the flare from the top, and sometimes is taking the length from the bottom. The key is always how he moves over that foot. And you can have the best farrier in the world, and they will miss this. Because they are not riding the horse, not watching the horse move regularly, in freedom to see how they handle their bodies. You should be.

Define “comfort”? Does she move better? Or are “reaction points” less but she moves less better. How is her impulsion? Is she willing to push off and swing over the back? This is important whether you are riding dressage or western pleasure. It speaks to how comfortable your horse is in its body. Can it move to the best of its ability in all 3 gaits and both leads? That is the gold standard you are looking for, regardless of whether the feet fit in a text book or not.

[buck22]

I apologize, I did not read in the OP that the horse moves better immediately after a trim. That changes my 2¢.

If the farrier’s work makes the horse feel better, then I would consult with them further on maintaining the soundness longer - perhaps more frequent trims or shoeing. Do you notice a cycle to the windpuffs? are they more or less dramatic before/after trimming?

My aged gelding developed a club foot resulting from an injury. Having a farrier visit every 5 weeks was not frequent enough to keep his angle on his club foot consistent enough to keep him pasture sound. That is why I decided to learn to trim myself. After hiring a professional to teach me and coach me over time, I was able to maintain my boy’s angles on a 2-3 week schedule which works for him.

If hyper-maintenance of angles proves to be a significant comfort factor for your horse, perhaps consider learning how to trim and maintain the angles yourself? Its not an endeavor to be taken lightly, but in the same breath, its not rocket science. : )

[Scribbler]

[QUOTE=buck22;8674049]
I apologize, I did not read in the OP that the horse moves better immediately after a trim. That changes my 2¢.

If the farrier’s work makes the horse feel better, then I would consult with them further on maintaining the soundness longer - perhaps more frequent trims or shoeing. Do you notice a cycle to the windpuffs? are they more or less dramatic before/after trimming?

My aged gelding developed a club foot resulting from an injury. Having a farrier visit every 5 weeks was not frequent enough to keep his angle on his club foot consistent enough to keep him pasture sound. That is why I decided to learn to trim myself. After hiring a professional to teach me and coach me over time, I was able to maintain my boy’s angles on a 2-3 week schedule which works for him.

If hyper-maintenance of angles proves to be a significant comfort factor for your horse, perhaps consider learning how to trim and maintain the angles yourself? Its not an endeavor to be taken lightly, but in the same breath, its not rocket science. : )[/QUOTE]

Good points. My farrier had discussed getting me to rasp the fronts a bit to maintain fit for the Renegade boots between trims, but I was a bit nervous about messing things up

[goodhors]

[QUOTE=Scribbler;8675002]
maintain fit for the Renegade boots between trims, but I was a bit nervous about messing things up :)[/QUOTE]

Hoof will grow back, give you another chance to “get it right” if you do mess up! Horse hooves grow pretty fast this time of year, so a good time to start rasping if you really want to do it yourself. I would go for it, if you can help horse be more comfortable. Bend your knees holding hooves up, not your back so much, working on hooves. This is to stay aligned in your own body. Helps keep back pain away, better for your body structure with only doing this work now and again.