Horse propping up heels in her stall

[OrangeAmbition]

I have a 12 yo mare who is schooling 2nd/3rd. The barn owner has noticed her mounding shavings in her stall under her heels on her hind legs.

I have discussed with my farrier and he made some adjustments. He said a next step would be wedge pads.

I’m wondering what discomfort she is trying to alleviate and whether I should be having a vet out (answers may affect vet selection), chiro/massage, more changes to shoeing etc.

We have been working her in a more collected frame (more towards third than 2nd) in the period where we have noticed this behaviour. She tends to be weaker on the right hind (has more trouble with the right flying change, tends to be a bit slower on that leg, but otherwise there is nothing of note happening under saddle.

Any insight or articles would be appreciated. It turns out that googling “horse props up heels with shavings in stall” is a pretty useless search!!

[Velvet]

Have you ever had her back hooves x-rayed? I think it would be worth it to see what’s going on back there. I’ve had horses that x-rayed with different angles inside the hoof (for the coffin bone) than what you could see on the outside. It was an eye opener for both me and my farrier. We were then able to shoe the horse and help with any pain issues.

[Hej]

If this was my horse, I would have a good sporthorse/lameness vet look at her whole hindquarters: feet, ankles, hocks, stifles, SI area.

I would be suspicious that the increased loading of the hindquarters is causing some soreness that she’s trying to relieve by changing the joint angles slightly - in this case by standing toe low/ heel high behind.

It might be something that will resolve as she gets fitter, or she may need some additional maintenance (shoeing changes, joint injections, massage/chiro, supplements, etc) as she progresses up through the levels.

I’d certainly begin with a workup by a good vet so we could address the specific problem area(s) and get her comfortable and working.

[joiedevie99]

Ditto. I’ve seen horses do this when they were sore in the low back/SI area, as well as hocks. I’d also want to confirm that there was nothing amiss with the angles in the hind feet that shoeing could help.

[SuckerForHorses]

I wouldn’t just add wedges.

I would want to know why she is standing like this before proceeding. Ditto the others who suggested a good lameness vet and chiro.

[Angela_Freda]

My horse did this when his fetlocks fell from the DSLD/ESPA… it was his way of alleviating the pain/strain of those tendons losing their elasticity.
I understand it can also be an early sign of laminitis, and or a neurological symptom.

I agree with those suggesting diagnostics to figure out the cause.

[Mondo]

Yes to all of the above. This is a very common thing that navicular horses do (although one usually sees them piling the shavings to relieve front hoof pain). Good for you for realizing that your mare is trying to tell you she hurts behind. Good luck! Let us know what you find out.

[Arabiandressage]

I echo the comment on DSLD, I have also seen a DSLD mare do this before outward symptoms were evident. A vet exam would be a great start. A lot of people may not even notice what you did so kudos to you for being observant.

[OrangeAmbition]

Thanks for all the quick replies. I am not keen on wedge pads as a next step. I’ll look into the vet. I have to think about who I want out. 3 vets 3 opinions.

[atr]

My old man does this–SI issues.

[cayuse]

I had one do this when his hocks starting bothering him. Once we got him comfortable he stopped doing it.

[OrangeAmbition]

SI issues ring most true to me (just a gut) because
this mate 100% reflects what my body is doing. It’s eerie. I’ve had more pronounced si instability since I had a baby 16 months ago. I do physiotherapy weekly, but it’s a work in progress.

For those that suggested si, what was the treatment? Body work or injections?

[OrangeAmbition]

Update: vet came and did a full lameness work up. She said there is nothing clinically wrong, though she agreed there is some source of discomfort. She said suspensories, hocks and si were all fine. She flexed clean. We discussed shoeing, adding selenium/vitamin e to her diet and having the chiro out. I will keep you all posted if anything comes to light. Thanks again for all the responses.

[TB_or_not_TB]

With that update, the chiro would be my first call. And I would call another chiro (preferably who is also a vet and not just a human chiro who also works on horses - never seen one that is very effective) if the first doesn’t find anything. Most lameness-oriented vets don’t seem to see body pain as well as leg issues. I’m sure some are great at it, but I’ve known many horses with major SI issues that the vet couldn’t find but a good chiro identified immediately. Just food for thought

Does she show any other trouble cantering? If she’s bunny hopping, cross cantering, or holds her tail to one side at times, it’s likely a pelvis issue. If it’s a sacrum issue, it can manifest with some of those symptoms but tends to be more like stiffness and inability to step under rather than mechanical problems within the gait. You’re likely to find low back pain with either of these.

Of course, it may not be SI pain at all. My next bet would be on the hind feet/farriery. The fact that your farrier suggested wedges without knowing the underlying source is a red flag to me because that suggestion indicates a lack of understanding about the horse’s body. If the feet check out, Rib or loin issues could be a possibility. Even kissing spine, gassy/ulcer belly, withers pain, or ovarian pain could cause the horse to try to adjust her stance.

[Foxtrot_s]

And putting more load on the fronts can start a whole lot of other issues.
Glad you are pursuing this. How can they work if they are not comfortable?

[Calamber]

Did your vet xray for hocks and ultrasound for suspensories? I would be suspicious if someone flexed for these kinds of issues. Also, an SI cannot be diagnosed the so called normal route, ie ultrasound and xray.

[WasthatC]

Propping up hind heels is commonly hocks and by connection SI. Adding wedges would not solve either.

If I had a 12 y.o. that had never had hocks injected but was schooling 2nd/3rd I’d have the hocks done. Two to four weeks later see what you have.

[Foxtrot_s]

Really ? My 13 year old mare is schooling past fourth and seems to have no problems…is it expected that they need hock injections as standard procedure?
Does everybody just do it -news to me.

[OrangeAmbition]

Thanks again for the feedback. I trust this vet implicitly. We work together well and if she says that given the utter lack of clinical findings we don’t need to undertake more tests at this stage, I believe her. Just to be clear, the vet did a full physical exam of her back and hind legs, not just flexions. She also watched her go. She and I are both very happy with the farrier’s work, so while we both disagreed with the wedge pad suggestion, he will not be thrown out with the proverbial bath water.

I also trust my horse, who is subtle but clear if she is at all uncomfortable in her job (I have several times picked up subclinical issues before the vet could) and she is totally sound under saddle (no tail to one side, no issues with one lead. I think I mentioned in my op that we had been working on the changes around the time this started and she definitely finds it harder to come through behind going left to right, but that’s it). i am going to take reasonable measures to get to the root of this, but I’m not going on a wild goose chase beyond that, unless their becomes a reason to do so. So I definitely appreciate people’s experiences, but at this stage I have no reason to second guess the professionals who have actually laid hands on her. It seems pretty reasonable to think that she has some muscle weakness (probably reflecting mine) or a bit of instability in her si that are causing the behaviour we are seeing. We are going to start monitoring whether it corresponds to hard work or cycles or anything.

[Foxtrot_s]

Let’s hope this is a matter of having her get strong enough for the work - it takes an extraordinarily long time, so hope slow and steady will resolve the issue.
I also have a team of the best people around me that I can find and trust them completely and as far as I am concerned that is the cheapest way to go.