Horse pulling away while being lunged

[Jim_Knopf]

I’m currently working with two very different horses that are both having problems on the lunge line–

One will turn in (a la Parelli) the SECOND one stops paying full attention–she’ll do this in walk, trot, and canter. She turns in, spins 1/2 way so she is going the other direction and then usually takes off in a canter in the new direction.

The other one uses the open side of the arena to try pulling out of the circle to go the other direction. He usually does this while going left. He also (to me) gives a fair amount of warning he is getting ready to do this. At that point I am able to shake the lunge whip at him and simply threaten that he better keep going forwards on the circle. That usually dissuades him from running out.

Both of these horses have gotten away with this behaviour with their owners. Now it’s up to me to fix it – first with me lunging, but of course I want their owners to be able to lunge as well.

I tend to work the horses in a lunging cavesson with or without side reins attached to their bit. The owner of the mare lunges her in a NH halter, the second owner is just very weak/slow but will lunge her boy in whatever I suggest.

Insights/training tips are appreciated!

[Thomas_1]

I’d be inclined to correct them on long reins otherwise known as advance of double lunging

[Granada]

When I did pony club the horse has to stand straight for the ratings, and my horse turned in constantly like your’s does. Here is what I did that worked for me:
-started by walking around the lunge circle at leading distance but holding line and whip, and did many halts asking him to stay straight, then gradually moving away.
-halted and then changed direction often by turning the horse to the OUTSIDE instead of the inside.
This worked for me, the horse always halts straight now, but it took at least a month, maybe longer of lunging a few days a week.

For the horse pulling out of the lunge circle, all I know of is what you are already doing: anticipating it, *use your whip to keep the horse forward and moving around the circle, and do a half halt before the ‘bad spot’. Also if you teach the horse to lunge on a light contact it seems to help b/c often they are falling in on the opposite side.

Consistent handling w/ leading and everything else always helps too.
Good Luck!

[Fitte]

I second the long lining. For the one that runs out on the circle, if you are good at long lining and the horse is REALLY bad, you can run your inside lunge line through the bit and attach to the surcingle.

For both horses make sure their lungers are keeping their shoulders parrallel to the horse’s hip and staying behind them. If they are turning their shoulders towards the horse’s front end it can encourage turning in/out.

[Dixon]

[QUOTE=Jim Knopf;3004997]

One will turn in (a la Parelli) the SECOND one stops paying full attention–[/QUOTE]

I don’t mean this in an obnoxious way, but keep paying full attention. :winkgrin: Do you mean that this happens when you turn to look somewhere besides at the horse? When you talk to someone? Or just when you stop making the horse go forward?

If it happens just when you stop actively making the horse go forward, such as when you stop clucking and/or let the whip down, then the answer is to keep making the horse go forward, even after you ask for a down transition. Better to go from trot to a marching walk for 1-2 laps than let the horse think it gets to come in whenever it slows down. As you’ve seen with the second horse, keeping the horse going forward can head off a lot of different problems.

If the first horse tends to turn in when you look away, could be the horse was trained NH-style to stay on the circle only as long as you keep eye contact, then turn in when you look away. For now, minimize the turn-ins and break the horse’s habit by maintaining eye contact, and be ready to move the whip to the horse’s FRONT end to prevent the turning in. The horse has to learn to pay attention to the whip instead of your face. The whip both drives the horse forward (when aimed at the hind end) and tells it to stay out on the circle (when moved incrementally forward). Make sure you’re using clear, consistent voice commands so the horse knows that “walk” means “come to a walk and keep walking”; and “HO” means “halt and stand still till I say otherwise.” When we aren’t disciplined and clear in our commands, horses learn that “HO” means “maybe you’re done working so walk on over to me and we’ll see.”

For the horse that pulls off the circle, do you have access to a bull pen during your retraining? (I’m avoiding the term “round pen” beause it conjures Parelli training like you are trying to overcome). If you don’t have a bull pen, can you create a defined longeing space using jumps or other rails and obstacles, to break the horse’s habit and get it to understand that “yes, we’re just going around and around and around in a seamless circle until I say otherwise.”

When the horse does pull away, do you have strong enough tack to get the horse’s attention? In other words, if the horse doesn’t respect the longeing cavesson enough (after all, they are designed for the horse’s comfort), and if driving the horse forward fails, can you yank the horse back to attention? On some horses that means a chain over the nose or even upper lip – on others it just means fastening the longeline to the inside bit ring, etc. Just make sure the horse can’t ignore you’re “hands” while you’re longeing.

Good luck with the retraining, and let us know how it goes.

[merrygoround]

Longeing is a full attention activity. It isn’t a time to have a conversation with anyone,or watch the scenery!!! Your left hand ( on the left rein) holds the longe line, your right hand holds the whip, your body forms the point of a triangle , with the horse’s body as the base. Your job is to maintain that triangle. If you allow him to fall behind, you invite him to either dive out, or swing in. Whip placement is critical, you sometimes ,need to be able to point it at a shoulder, and then immediately get it behind again.

I’ve found that with horses that tend to misbehave, side reins are essential. :yes:

The horses you are dealing with are not unique, its stuff that most of them will try at one point in their career or other.

Be patient , stay with it.

[NRB]

[QUOTE=Thomas_1;3005000]
I’d be inclined to correct them on long reins otherwise known as advance of double lunging[/QUOTE]

ditto

[Lamma70]

I don’t think I can help you with the pulling away…but my horse was doing that spin and go in the other direction thing too…ala Parelli. He was doing many other bad lunge behaviors like turning in and rearing…um, kicking out, etc., etc. My trainer helped me a lot with him and is much stronger with lunging techniques, but before we started trying to lunge him we did some round pen stuff with him and got him to “join up” and learn to respect people a bit more (but it wasn’t rough at all, we just basically made him move his feet, or go forward (gallop) if he wasn’t listening or inattentive). We also worked on hand walking and keeping his head and neck aligned (straight) with his body (he’s got a big snake neck!). Once we did this for a few weeks, we then got him lunging again, he tried the spinning in and other tricks, but we were better able to cope with it as he was paying more attention to the hand signals and such that we used with the round pen and hand walking exercises). He can still be a stinker on the lunge line at times, but has gotten sooooo much better! FYI, I also use side reins now, which probably helps his snake neck! He! He!

Not sure if this helps you at all, as I am probably not explaining it in as much detail…but just thought I would share.

[classicsporthorses]

Hi Jim, these are actually easy to correct for both horses.

With the first one, obviously she has been taught that this is the “Correct” response when there is little or no pressure on her. I don’t mean keeping the whip on her all the time but rather as others said, pay full attention until she learns 1. that she has to keep going and 2. she has to respond to YOUR commands and 3. she only gets to stop when you say she can stop. It’s a new learning curve for her so it may take a bit, and each horse is different, for her to learn her new normal.

With horse #2, it’s one of two things. 1. He’s being a stinker and want to “bolt” and/or 2. he is not balanced at all on that side and that size circle is too small for him so he leans, steps or whatever to the outside and tries to turn the other way b/c it’s harder. Many, many horses are strong or more balanced on one side more than the other. To get him to start to work on balance AND on changing the behavior, start him at the walk on the “off” side walk around a few times, ask for a trot, 1/2 way around, then walk, Trot 3/4 way around then walk, trot 1 circle walk, I think you see where I am going with this. Reward the good and build up to what you want.

If he holds it together with the trot, then ask for trot to canter transition and so forth. Give him the space he needs.

I also have a “Y” attachment on the end of my lunge line. This gives you control on both sides of their head, either attached to the bit or sides of halter or caveson. You can stop a bull elephant as you have their head. It also allows you to control them if they decided to have a moment and try to change direction. If he tries to pull a fast one, he must be giving you a sign and catch him at that instant and Apply more pressure to move him forward in the direction you want him to go.

Lunging it really not about strength on the human’s part it’s about the horse learning to appropriately respond to the cues he/she is given.

[Eclectic_Horseman]

Why don’t you use side reins

In my experience, the sorts of problems that you describe don’t usually come up with horses longed in side reins.

[merrygoround]

Actually they do! But they sure are easier to deal with.

[slight]

I hope it’s not hijacking if I have the same problem:running out, but my horse has never worn side reins - I’m afraid he’d flip over…how do you start them out?

[stryder]

if she’s bolting, don’t fight

I’ve found that not fighting a horse allows me to win. Balance is one thing, and we can work on that. But being stinky is another. She can’t win if I don’t fight. When I see the first sign of a step out of the circle to bolt, I immediately step toward her at least one big step, move my forward hand more forward (to draw her back onto the circle) and bring my longe whip up behind her. She moves quickly back onto the circle. It take some practice because we think we can “hold” them if they try to bolt away. Well that’s just crazy. Just go with the flow. It will get easier and easier if you don’t fight with them. Good luck.

[KrazyTBMare]

My friends gelding does this, but takes off AWAY from you in a full gallop and knows you cannot hang on. Hes 1250lbs and knows it.

I just got a round pen, so before that, I lunged him in a rope halter and long lines through the surcingle. He would go to bolt, hit the rope halter which applied pressure on the poll, and then I had enough leverage to keep him from taking off too far. He hit that a few times and that was it. We did not try cantering but it was a much safer situation than having him tearing down fences and running around like a mad man.

[denovo]

I have a gelding who had very similar problems on the lunge. He would do the spin around, then bolt away.

The system that worked for him was to “round pen” him(I don’t have one, so had to make one!) until he realized he had to keep going. This way there was no lunge line to worry about getting wrapped around him if he spun around, I could just chase him bck the correct way.
I then moved to lungeing him in the round pen. When I finally took away the “round pen”, it was long lining for weeks, then lungeing in side reins, and now he’s perfectly obediant just lungeing with no side reins or anything.

I’ve never had one so difficult! Siden reins in the beginning didn’t work fo rhim–he knew just the right way to pull that made it work, I have no idea how he did it! Thankfully, all is well now. Good luck with yours!

[vanheimrhorses]

you need to use a loose ring snaffle with bit guards as these press on the lower jaw and attach the longe line to one side of the bit the inside, you must use side reins for stabilization and prevent them turning in or around, further use double lines so you have an outside line to prevent them turning in, also make the outside side rein one hole shorter than the inside to keep the horses on the outside hand so to speak, use boots on their legs for protection so they dont kick themselves fooling around with you, i would not use the longing cavesson in this situation they can get away too easy i would only attach the line to the bit on the bridle, i would also longe in chambon as having their head down and having them use their backs will make them pay more attention and prevent them whipping around on you. good luck
and remember lots of treats for well done work, say two or three laps in correct direction nothing wrong deserves a break and reward possibly even starting clicker training

[Thomas_1]

I wouldn’t suggest side reins for a horse that’s proving a problem on a single lunge line.

I’d be thinking that the horse doesn’t know what its supposed to be doing and that may be because the person on the other end of the line isn’t actually asking correctly and hence the horse isn’t trained.

As such I think its an error of judgement to suggest use of side reins which IMO should only be used by those who absolutely know what they’re doing and how and when to use them.

Personally speaking I’ve not used side reins for about 9 years and wouldn’t even know where abouts mine are. Yet I train horses for a living. IME its as rare as rocking horse poo that they’re ever actually really and truly needed.

For the problems described in this posting what’s best advised is someone who is genuinely experienced and competent and on long reins (or double lunging)

[JB]

Please don’t blame this on Parelli :no: Blame it on poor application of anything PNH, that’s fine, and is often deserved. But that is never ever ever acceptable behavior by any PNH standard.