Horse pulls back for farrier

[goldenstirrup]

My 3yo has been good for the farrier all his life until now. He’s a new horse and has had four trims so far with this farrier. The first time I was able to hold him and he was pretty good, twice I was unable to be at the barn to hold him, and a few days ago when I was there. Apparently he has been very bad the two trims without me although I wasn’t told until I discovered first hand what he has been doing.

My horse gets very nervous now, and when the farrier has one of his front legs, he leans back until the farrier can’t hold on then flies backwards. This is a terrible habit and the farrier thinks I might have to tranquilize him if he needs shoes put on again (which he will soon).

I have been working with his feet, picking them up and hitting them with things etc. and he doesn’t care. What would you do?

Edit: Thank you for all the replies! I appreciate the ideas.

[2tempe]

Does he shoe the horse in an aisle or a more enclosed area? Have a mare who will do that, especially if she is cross tied. But even with just a lead rope and holder. Farrier started doing the work in her stall, halter and lead rope on, rope just dangling thru bars outside stall. Hay net available. It worked like a charm. Farrier said some horses feel insecure with the open space behind them.

[SuzieQNutter]

My boy used to be able to be done by the farrier without a halter on. Then when he arrived Sim took off up the driveway. A red flag to me that he didn’t like this farrier. I listened to my horse and changed farriers.

[goodhors]

Will Farrier work with horse in a box stall? We sometimes just put their rump in a corner so they can’t back up, see if that helps.

Next question. How much do you handle horses feet? Quick hoof check often, daily, or just now and again? Can you pick up hooves, put them between your knees to hold for cleaning, over your thigh with hinds, keep hooves in place for increasing lengths of time? Practicing hoof care the way Farrier holds hooves will help, especially done daily.

Lastly, how is Farrier built? I see smaller, trim built Farriers being able to get close or even under some horses. They are not pulling forelegs out to the side, forcing hinds up high, to get worked on. Many tight muscled horses, western breeds, just can’t get their legs out and up to the side like that smooth muscled TB or WB can do. Bigger Farriers have a harder time getting small, in under a horse, so they may be pulling legs out to get the work done. Look at your Farrier at work on another horse, see how they hold legs, get positioned beside the horse.

Then see what triggers your young horse to jump back, so you can change things, improve his standing for longer periods. Treats to lean forward instead of flying back? Shorter sessions holding up his leg BEFORE he jumps back? You may just HAVE to get there for the Farrier visits, or things will get lots worse. Much harder to fix when horse is terrified and you don’t know how it happened. Farrier is probably not doing anything bad, horse just doesn’t like the process, needs more training to be accepting of things. Best of luck changing his thinking.

[PrincessPonies]

Could something have happened that no ones telling you? Could he just not like this farrier? When we moved I had to find a new farrier and my horse hated him. I have never seen her act up as much as she did that day. Had another farrier come out the next time and she was much better behaved, though not as good as before. Since then she’s slowly gotten back to the horse who falls asleep while tied for the farrier. My old trainer had a horse act similarly. Completely flipped out for one farrier but when a new one came was happy to stand.

[merrygoround]

If this activity started with a change of farriers, I suggest you either go back to the old farrier or find a new farrier. How the farrier handles and holds a horse can make an enormous difference.

And Yes, it most likely that someone is not telling you something.

[beowulf]

Other posters have already touched the topic of the fault possibly being in the farrier… however… to give the farrier the benefit of the doubt – are you sure he is not hurting somewhere? I have a gelding who historically has been great being shod, as in he will sleep while the nails are being driven in… but one time, he got really wiggly which was uncharacteristic of him. Three days later he had a hot-nail abscess. My take on it is the farrier got too close - it took him a while to be comfortable with the farrier again; for the next few trims he was really fussy with his feet.

I also have had a different gelding have a hard time with one hind leg. That was the earliest sign of his neurological issue, which at that point we did not suspect yet. Looking back, I can say for certain that the difficulty holding that hind leg (we assumed it was arthritic, as he was in his 20s) was related to his brewing neurological compromise, which up until that point had only manifested as difficulty trimming that hind. A few months later he was in full blown neurological episode, from cervical arthritis.

[Simkie]

This horse is new to you. Who says he’s been good his whole life for the farrier?

Absolutely worth considering that he may not like the farrier or that he’s sore. But the seller might have also sold you a line about how good he stands.

Can you use the same farrier the previous owner did?

[TCA_Arabians]

Goldenstirrup - Simkie hit the nail on the head (pun intended).

You started out saying that your horse is 3 and a ‘new’ horse. By that, I take it he’s new to you. So, maybe the seller telling you he stands well for the farrier wasn’t accurate.

For me, farriers are as important as vets. So, if you want to hang in with this farrier - plan to be there while your horse is shod so you can watch. Is the farrier new to you too? Was he held by a 2nd person while the farrier worked on him at his old home? We have one that falls asleep while the farrier works. One that HAS to be held by his trainer and ONLY his trainer, etc. etc. Good luck!

[shayaalliard]

I can trim my mare loose in her stall. She trims in cross ties or tied or held-for the good farrier and the great one and the not so skilled- NEVER a problem. New barn, barn farrier comes- mare says no so strongly she fell to her knees and banged her nose in the concrete aisle.
new farrier- no problem. She just didn’t like him. And I should have listened to her because he trimmed my gelding so short/trimmed sole that it took 4 weeks before he could more than hobble without boots on.

[goldenstirrup]

@goodhors

Will Farrier work with horse in a box stall? We sometimes just put their rump in a corner so they can’t back up, see if that helps.

Next question. How much do you handle horses feet? Quick hoof check often, daily, or just now and again? Can you pick up hooves, put them between your knees to hold for cleaning, over your thigh with hinds, keep hooves in place for increasing lengths of time? Practicing hoof care the way Farrier holds hooves will help, especially done daily.

Lastly, how is Farrier built? I see smaller, trim built Farriers being able to get close or even under some horses. They are not pulling forelegs out to the side, forcing hinds up high, to get worked on. Many tight muscled horses, western breeds, just can’t get their legs out and up to the side like that smooth muscled TB or WB can do. Bigger Farriers have a harder time getting small, in under a horse, so they may be pulling legs out to get the work done. Look at your Farrier at work on another horse, see how they hold legs, get positioned beside the horse.

Then see what triggers your young horse to jump back, so you can change things, improve his standing for longer periods. Treats to lean forward instead of flying back? Shorter sessions holding up his leg BEFORE he jumps back? You may just HAVE to get there for the Farrier visits, or things will get lots worse. Much harder to fix when horse is terrified and you don’t know how it happened. Farrier is probably not doing anything bad, horse just doesn’t like the process, needs more training to be accepting of things. Best of luck changing his thinking.

I handle his hooves daily and have started placing the fronts in between my knees and hitting them with his old shoe and hammer. He is great. No problem with wrenching legs, my horse is a big warmblood. He does break cross ties by going backwards and we are working on this, so maybe he doesn’t like the open space. I will ask if the farrier can do his hooves in the stall next time. He doesn’t seem to have a trigger, just gets a look in his eye and starts leaning back. I’m working with his feet for at least 20 minutes a day now to see what difference it makes. Thanks!

[goldenstirrup]

@merrygoround

If this activity started with a change of farriers, I suggest you either go back to the old farrier or find a new farrier. How the farrier handles and holds a horse can make an enormous difference.

And Yes, it most likely that someone is not telling you something.

I think I will find a new farrier if the next visit does not go well, his old farrier is 1,700 miles away so that won’t work sadly!

[goldenstirrup]

@beowulf

Other posters have already touched the topic of the fault possibly being in the farrier… however… to give the farrier the benefit of the doubt – are you sure he is not hurting somewhere? I have a gelding who historically has been great being shod, as in he will sleep while the nails are being driven in… but one time, he got really wiggly which was uncharacteristic of him. Three days later he had a hot-nail abscess. My take on it is the farrier got too close - it took him a while to be comfortable with the farrier again; for the next few trims he was really fussy with his feet.

I also have had a different gelding have a hard time with one hind leg. That was the earliest sign of his neurological issue, which at that point we did not suspect yet. Looking back, I can say for certain that the difficulty holding that hind leg (we assumed it was arthritic, as he was in his 20s) was related to his brewing neurological compromise, which up until that point had only manifested as difficulty trimming that hind. A few months later he was in full blown neurological episode, from cervical arthritis.

I don’t think it’s a pain issue as I have been hitting his hooves with a curry comb and hammering at an old shoe on them and he is perfect for me. He had a neuro exam (suspected EPM) 2 months ago so he should be fine.

[goldenstirrup]

@Simkie

This horse is new to you. Who says he’s been good his whole life for the farrier?

Absolutely worth considering that he may not like the farrier or that he’s sore. But the seller might have also sold you a line about how good he stands.

Can you use the same farrier the previous owner did?

I have videos of him being shod and standing nicely from his breeder and he behaved the first time he was trimmed with me. The old farrier is across the country…

[Simkie]

If there was something wrong with him eight weeks ago that led you too think he may have EPM, there’s a very good chance he’s uncomfortable.

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[goldenstirrup]

@Simkie

If there was something wrong with him eight weeks ago that led you too think he may have EPM, there’s a very good chance he’s uncomfortable.

​​​​​​

He got kicked and was crossing his hind right almost to the centerline of his body, so very slightly. By the time the vet came out, he was walking normally but we still did a neurological and lameness test. Vet declared him fine and he lets me mess with his legs every day.
He also shows no resistance in his training and is very willing other than for the farrier.

[Hilary]

In post 11 you said he pulls back and breaks crossties and that you are working on that. THAT is the problem. He pulls back. And he does it to the farrier.

I think you need to either be there yourself of pay someone to hold him for the farrier so he isn’t tied. He’s only 3, you can train it out of him but it is certainly the beginning of what could be a longterm habit.

[ThirdCharm]

if he is busting out of cross ties that is the problem. He has learned if he doesn’t care to stand he can just “leave”. Nip it in the bud. Crosstie and shoe him with a wall behind him. Once it has been established that he CAN behave, Crosstie him without a wall behind him. while you do your usual routine with him have someone hide in a stall somewhere behind him with a dressage whip and beat his ass if he goes backwards.

Jennifer

[Horseman15]

Something to think about here; My horses are good for the farrier. However, I had one farrier my horse with crappy feet really didn’t like. He’d pull, push and be all kinds of obnoxious with. I changed Farriers and the problems ceased. It may be something the farrier did that’s causing this behavior. Just a thought to chew on