I purchased a 2 year old filly at the end of spring, and she stayed with the seller over the summer. The seller noted that since she was turned out with a herd over the summer, she has developed some herdbound behavior-acting up when coming inside away from her herd, and rearing in the cross ties when she’s left alone; neither of which she had done prior when she was turned out with only one other filly. I am feeling really discouraged because one of the reasons I purchased this horse is she was so well-mannered, and I have dealt with this behavior in a previous horse, and no matter what I tried, it remained an issue (and also escalated into stall spinning and rearing when he was alone, though thankfully he did not have this issue when working.) Does anybody have insight as how to remedy this before it does become a life-long issue, or can provide any encouragement at all? I know she’s a baby (and not my first baby at that) but I have been scarred by my last gelding and it honestly was a source of a lot of anxiety and stress. Thank you, all!
If she were mine, I would be working with her in the ties for short periods of time so she becomes confident in being by herself and rewarding her for being a good girl by offering lots and lots of treats and slowing increasing her time in the ties, and generally fussing over her so she wants to be with me.
I would also starting making her come in for meals, grooming, etc every day or so with true one on one work. (no running in and out of the barn) proper leading, standing, etc. Sounds like she has been lax in her manners.
Then if that did not work and she still threw a hissy fit, I would put her in a set of cross ties under a ceiling leave her and alone so when she went up, she hit her head.
Was the seller supposed to be continuing her education on how to be a good horse, or was she just there to grow up out in the field for the summer with some peers?
Please do not do anything purposely to make your Filly hit her head. She’s not being a brat. She’s completely overwhelmed and has not been taught the steps to self manage. Expecting her to behave perfectly when she’s taken away from her friends is a crazy idea. She needs things broken down into small bite-size learning chunks.
I personally do not hook Horses up and cross ties until they stand on their own (I’m holding lead rope.)in the cross tie area for grooming and whatever other activities we do there. Once they are relaxed completely, I attach one cross tie on one side and hold the lead rope on the other. I switch around when I go to the other side.
The important thing to understand here is that your filly has absolutely no idea that she is supposed to stand still in the cross ties. Being tied does not equate “be still” in Horses’s mind. Unless you teach them about standing still before being tied, their understanding of being tied is that it just reduces their amount of space in which to move. And if they’re upset, they’re gonna move.
Get yourself on some Warwick Schiller podcasts and videos.
I have a mare that did this. Patience training is everything. She regresses when she isn’t in work, and I have to go back and do a reset. She has no interest in hurting herself…she just gets annoyed and pops up. I tend to just straight tie her for an hour a day during chores when she goes feral. She can throw her temper tantrums, get bored, and fall asleep. I always use breakaway stuff in case she gets actually scared instead of just bored.
Hi, thanks for the suggestions! To answer your question, the plan was to allow her to grow a bit for a few months this summer, then resume her training, as she didn’t turn 2 until mid July. Prior to that little break, she did not have the same issues. She wasn’t totally unhandled or anything during this time; it just wasn’t as frequent, so she still had her feet done, groomed here and there, etc.
Take a look at the stuff that Warwick Schiller does in terms of ground work. Start at the very beginning. If you become a member, he is pretty good at answering questions.
Thanks everyone that has responded so far! Just to clarify, this horse is not new to handling, and did not have these issues prior, so it seems to be more than simply a lack of understanding her role, since she did not have his problem before being turned out with a herd. She was always fine in the crossties being groomed, hosed, trimmed, left alone etc before this, so it’s not that she doesn’t understand how to stand still or be cross-tied, as she never did this prior and it does stop after the initial meltdown. This is directly related to being separated from her herd, so this is more to do with being herd-bound and having separation anxiety. This doesn’t happen when her buddies are with her in the barn, only when taken out of the field and they are left behind.
Being herd bound is a training issue. Any horse at any age can develop it. You do the same kinds of groundwork as with a young horse to get their mind back on you and trust you.
Shes just 2! Work on her confidence getting further away from her comfort zone. What kind of lesdership does she have? This is when the person in the room makes a lot of difference.
I do understand that, hence why I asked for suggestions on how to remedy . I was just clarifying for the people that seemed to think this horse didn’t yet know how to cross-tied or stand still, and to emphasize that it’s a herd-bound issue, not an all-the-time issue. It reminds me of when farriers ask owners to practice ground manners and hoof handling with their horses, but the issue only occurs with the farrier, so there is no way to work on these problem areas when the farrier isn’t present, since the horse is perfect when said farrier isn’t around anyway. That being said, I guess I will have to start with remedial steps when she IS having separation anxiety, as if she was learning from square one all over again
I’m not sure I understand what you’re asking. She’s been with the seller these past months, so I can’t be certain of what leadership she’s had. The seller himself is a very competent horseman who makes a living working with, training, and competing young horses, so I don’t think the issue is with him. Possibly working students.
When she’s rearing on the cross-ties, is she also sitting back and/or fighting them?
In other words, are the cross-ties really the issue? Is this a “horse rearing in cross-ties” issue or a “horse is herd-bound” issue?
If it’s a cross-tying issue, I agree with taking it back to the beginning and using no cross-ties, then one cross tie (I always ran the regular lead through the ring of the unhooked cross tie). Maybe even put up blocker tie-rings in the cross-ties.
If it’s a herd-bound issue, that’s a whole different ballgame and it may require different management of her (turn-out situation, etc.) and just tons of time and patience. And Warwick Schiller can definitely be helpful to watch.
I can’t be certain, as she’s not with me, but the seller made it sound like she is annoyed about being away from her buddies, so acts out when in them. He said she pops up, but did not mention her leaning back or breaking them in order to run back to the herd or anything. It’s never an issue if they are inside with her; only when she is alone. There is a language barrier, but best I can tell is he is trying to describe a “tantrum” that does stop once she realizes she’s not going back out.
As to whether it’s a cross-tie issue or herd-bound issue, I guess it’s more the herd, but it’s manifesting in the walk back to the barn and being placed on the cross-ties. That’s where she immediately goes when brought in, but I assume if she went into her stall she might be worked up in there, too. It does also occur when her handler walks away when she’s on the cross-ties, which makes me believe it’s a separation anxiety/herd-bound issue that manifests since she’s confined and feels insecure. It’s just a guess, however.
You don’t have possession of her yet? In that case you can’t do anything or even really assess the problem. Once you have her under your care you can go back to basics with this baby horse.
Ditch the crossties until this is resolved, I’d straight tie only, and on a blocker ring. One time of her breaking the ties and going back to her buddies and youll have a real problem on your hands. I’d also ask the current location to frequently switch her turnout situation so she doesn’t rely on the routine/set friends so much.
I’m guessing just moving her home when the time comes will resolve the issue, as a new location will sever the herd attachment she has.
2yos start bridging the gap between being a youngster and an adult, finding their place in the world and their “herd”, testing the waters, etc.
in what context was she well-mannered? Was she perfectly fine being left alone on the crossties?
what did you try, and for how long? All that is herd-bound behavior, lack of confidence, not learning how to be comfortable by themselves
It sounds like you’d also benefit from someone showing you how to incrementally, without emotion, acclimate a horse and teach them how to be ok by themselves.
I have a home-grown who, around the same age, decided he couldn’t be left alone. I used a lot of treats to encourage him to look to me, which meant looking away from the horses I just turned out, and as long as he looked and came to me for the treat, I would immediately turn him out (halter and walking him, not just opening the door to let him bolt out), even if he was still upset. There was no point in trying, at that point, to “get him to calm down”. It didn’t take long for him to learn that treats were better than (immediately) going out to be with the others, and in a week or so, as soon as I put the others out, he would actually go park himself at the inside door of his stall to wait for me and the treats. Then, I wanted him to watch the horses going out up the hill out of view, but getting him to come back to the outside stall door was hard It didn’t take long before he was just quietly hanging out in his stall while I did a few quick chores, followed by treats, and eventually weaning off the treats.
For crossties, don’t tie a horse who can’t be by himself for 2 seconds. Teach WHOA, as in “plant your feet until I ask otherwise”. Or teach her to be ok in her stall by herself for 5 minutes, where she’s not tied.
Pleeeeeeze don’t do anything that will cause a horse to hit their head. It takes the perfect height ceiling to have them hit as they are in full extension, but not so hard as to cause damage. Most ceilings are too low, and they can have a lot of momentum going by the time they hit.
The goal, unless it’s a very extreme situation and everything else has been tried, is to not get to the point the horse is practicing the behavior you don’t want. If you remove the ability for her to rear, you haven’t fixed WHY she’s rearing, and she may resort to bucking, sitting back and breaking things, bolting forward.
Arlomine is right, she’s not a brat, she’s unhappy and hasn’t learned in her growing adulting body with increasing hormones, that she is ok by herself.
Just start from the beginning. Assume she’s untouched. Don’t put her in positions of that extreme discomfort
Ok good! So you have a starting point. As long as her meltdown isn’t dangerous, ignore her during her little meltdown, and then as soon as her feet are planted and she’s not considering rearing again, praise her, remove her from the crossties, even if it’s just to walk the aisle and go back. Gradually increase the time you allow her to stand planted, before rewarding
If you can enlist some help, then using the quietest horse of the herd you have at home, the one who won’t mind that the others are already out, have someone hold him outside the barn but in her view. See how that goes. Have that horse walked into and out of her view several times, so she learns that being “alone” is ok, that someone is going to come back.
Another tactic is to bring her in first, put her in her stall/on the cross ties, and if she is at least standing on all 4s for a minute, bring someone else in. Take that horse in and out a few times, so she understands that not everything means she’s alone forever.
Behavior that is about confidence in their own skin, fear of clippers etc, is all about approach and retreat. The goal isn’t to prevent them from getting upset, it’s to teach them either an appropriate reaction to being afraid (ie planting your feet is fine, bolting/rearing is not), so you have to start raising the level of apprehension, just not nearly to the point of practicing the unwanted behavior. Approach (raise a level of anxiety), but retreat before that manifests are behavior
The best thing you can do is handle her every single day. Work on ground work, tying, standing tied, grooming and leading exercises and even mild round pen work ( walking, direction changes etc).
At 2 she doesn’t need any more time to " grow " but would benefit from learning right now what a work ethic is all about.
I am not a fan of crossties and especially for a horse with issues. Too many ways to get hurt. If mine I would tie her to a solid post but use a piece of baling twine or a blocker ring.
. I was just clarifying for the people that seemed to think this horse didn’t yet know how to cross-tied or stand still, and to emphasize that it’s a herd-bound issue, not an all-the-time issue. It reminds me of when farriers ask owners to practice ground manners and hoof handling with their horses, but the issue only occurs with the farrier, so there is no way to work on these problem areas when the farrier isn’t present, since the horse is perfect when said farrier isn’t around anyway. That being said, I guess I will have to start with remedial steps when she IS having separation anxiety, as if she was learning from square one all over again
It didn’t take long before he was just quietly hanging out in his stall while I did a few quick chores, followed by treats, and eventually weaning off the treats.