If the horse will longe to hand and voice commands, but runs at OP with ears pinned at the mere presence of a longe whip, that part at least isn’t pain, whatever else may be happening under saddle.
Sure, get a vet to rule out pain, or try to. But pain or no pain, this is also a horse that has OP’s number.
Some angry and not so nice people on this board, sorry about that,
I have seen this scenario before, my neighbors appaloosa,
a nice gelding that was ridden by a young boy.
after a couple a months in the pasture with the mares he was unrideable and was sent to auction, I tried to get on him myself.
Not worth it.
But definitely check for pain.
I would not try mounting this mare again until she longed both ways, calmly, with the longe whip. What I think is that you pushed this mare, and she is rightly seriously pissed off.
There are some horses you can jump right back on after time off and there are many that you can’t. This mare is going to need serious, slow, desensitization and training until she feels like you’re giving her a good deal. Because right now it’s pretty obvious that you aren’t.
Have you tried ground driving? If not it might be a good way to move her feet forward without putting yourself in danger from being on her back.
Also, she does need to accept things like the lounge whip. By coming at you with her ears pinned she is doing a wonderful job of training you to put down the whip! Go back to zero and sack her out with the whip. Teach her that you are not going to hurt her with it. Pet her all over with it until she is comfortable with you carrying it and then progress to directing her movements with it. Whips are only an extention of your arm and a necessary aid in your training box.
Do you have a friend willing to help you and be there when you work with this mare? If you could enlist them to lead the mare off as you start ground driving her it will be easier for the mare to learn. Then the friend gradually backs off as the mare figures out what to do. Once she is happy and responsive to the ground driving you can then start adding time in the saddle. The voice commands to move off that she learned from having you behind her should then transfer to her from the saddle.
Don’t get hurt with this mare. Take everything in baby steps. Think through exactly what you want to accomplish each training session. Praise, praise, praise when she accepts those baby steps!
Meant to add…
You don’t hit a horse with a longe whip either. It’s a guide. And even once a horse like this is responding both ways happily on the longe to voice commands, isn’t afraid of the whip, I’d still have a helper for the first mounting.
The is a dangerous situation. Probably best left to pros, but if you insist, then I’d take the long slow approach with this mare.
Fellow boarder at the new farm tells me gelding won’t longe or stand to be mounted…he is stubborn and quite a few people have tried to “fix” him. I watched her try to longe him and saw the issue immediately. Asked her if I could try. Sucker tried to not move ,loud, aggressive crack of the longe whip his butt got him longing with no issue. He looked in at me several times and was met with the same response…the whip. Next, watched her try to mount, horse would move away. Asked her to let me try…when he would try to move away…I made him move, backward around the indoor long enough to make an impression. Took twice and he was begging to stand still for mounting. Many times horses get your number and need a subtle reminder of who pays the feed bill.
She has no respect. She needs ground work with basic respect and control exercises, then work up to lunging and riding.
[QUOTE=KIloBright;7778923]
Don’t know if this post was a reply to my post, but if so, note that I said to rule out all pain first, and then ,and only then, to get a horse that is balking to move, you un track them sideways, and you do not just boot them ahead[/QUOTE]
I agreed with what you said KIloBright, and that the poster has the potential for disaster. Untracking is definitely the thing to do, but then I was trying to figure out if groundwork was done before getting on and having a blow up…
Sorry if that wasn’t clear.
[QUOTE=Underthebridge;7779031]
Some angry and not so nice people on this board, sorry about that,
I have seen this scenario before, my neighbors appaloosa,
a nice gelding that was ridden by a young boy.
after a couple a months in the pasture with the mares he was unrideable and was sent to auction, I tried to get on him myself.
Not worth it.
But definitely check for pain.[/QUOTE]
Sometimes people get nasty on this board, but I haven’t seen anything terrible so far, blunt…yes.
I wasn’t trying to be mean, just trying to determine what was done on the ground before getting on to ride.
There have been some good information given here, but now that I have read the newer info, I think the horse is dangerous and the poster over their head with this horse.
I think it would be terrible to read either the horse was badly hurt or the poster was.
Good luck.
Have someone lead her off with you on her back for a few times. She may just be too nervous to move, frightened that something will go wrong if she does move. I have had one horse go through something like that. Being led off a few times made a big difference.
“Based on your questions and descriptions, and your responses, you cannot help this horse.”
This bears repeating.
[QUOTE=OneGrayPony;7779082]
Meant to add…
You don’t hit a horse with a longe whip either. It’s a guide. And even once a horse like this is responding both ways happily on the longe to voice commands, isn’t afraid of the whip, I’d still have a helper for the first mounting.
The is a dangerous situation. Probably best left to pros, but if you insist, then I’d take the long slow approach with this mare.[/QUOTE]
Have to disagree on use of a whip when long lining or lunging a horse. If the whip won’t reach the horse, why have whip at all? No you are not beating horse with the whip, but way too often I see folks trying to get horse going and getting laughed at by a poorly trained horse they can’t reach with the whip. I have enough lash on the whip to “reach out and touch him” if he is not obedient to the voice or lines out in the circle.
Does take a bit of skill to handle such a long whip and lash, so you are just touching for emphasis when horse ignores you. That is usually all it takes, a touch and horse understands you truly mean business.
But OP is not skilled at lunging, ground driving, long lining, so trying to redirect the horse with those methods sounds like she will be worse off than she started, especially holding ANY whip.
OP sounds like horse is about sick of her, not reading body signals, hurting the mare, and done with being misunderstood. I think OP had best step AWAY from this horse, turn it over to ANOTHER TRAINER before OP gets REALLY HURT. She is on borrowed time, not “getting it” with this horse.
Reading all this advice to OP doesn’t make her able to use it. As mentioned, this horse has her number, best to just get out of trying to “fix” what she caused on this horse before she gets hurt.
Have to disagree on use of a whip when long lining or lunging a horse. If the whip won’t reach the horse, why have whip at all? No you are not beating horse with the whip, but way too often I see folks trying to get horse going and getting laughed at by a poorly trained horse they can’t reach with the whip. I have enough lash on the whip to “reach out and touch him” if he is not obedient to the voice or lines out in the circle.
Touch yes, whip no. My suspicion based on the OP is that mare has an aversion now to the longe whip. Usually doesn’t happen from a few light taps.
At any rate, I agree. Dangerous situation.
Maybe I missed it and if I did I apologize, why was the horse laid off for 3 years?
From the OP’s description, she doesn’t know how to handle a horse exhibiting the challenging behaviours this horse has presented. In general, any horse which charges you when you are on the ground with it (ie, whWhen en the op tried to longe it) is seriously challenging the boundaries here. You must be right on the money with an instant reaction to it, and have a strong ground training program right up your sleeve when a horse does that, and it doesn’t involve a whi
When the horse refused to move mounted, That was an instant sign that either a)there was a good reason the horse was left in a field for 3 years, or, b) there was some kind of physical problem going on.
Horses out of training take up right where they left off, when reintroduced to their work. That means the horse refused to move based on where she was when her training and riding stopped 3 years ago, AND she learned somewhere back then to charge and challenge people and didn’t respect them.
That’s where the OP’s training is going to start now.
Is the OP capable of tackling any of that? From what she’s said so far, I doubt it.
I wonder if there could be a vision problem since the horse will only longe one way. There is a horse at our barn that would prefer not to longe one direction. He will when asked, but would prefer not to have his compromised eye towards the rider.
I also think it is time to bring in a pro for at least a consult. No one regrets getting a good professional involved, but you will regret not doing it when you or the horse are seriously injured.
Also if it were my horse I would start hanging the longe whip in the stall with the horse and start desensitizing her to it.
I wonder what the back story to this horse is. Often a horse is given to a keen, gutsy young person to work with because the original owners have not had the knowledge to work her, and the young person ends up with a horse that needs a more experienced hand. . . and continues with the same downward spiral.
This is not a dig at the OP - she has come here for help and suggestions.
First off, I thought this forum was for advice and tips. Not rude comments and criticism. If there’s one thing I learned, you horses people are quick to judge on other people.
Who are you to say im inexperienced and don’t know what Im doing based on a few small details! Now im far from a professional, but ive been around horse my whole life, and have worked with them for 10 years on my own.I have delt with many horses over the years, good and bad. This horse is a first to give me a run for my money. And I joined this forum hoping to get new insight and training tips.
Now as far as the horse goes, She is a 10 year old very stocky QH mare, and im 160lbs, so weight is not the issues id say. She has been in the pasture for so long because her owner is a 69 year old woman who cannot do anything with them because of physical issues she has. Shes never been stalled, always ran with the other horses, and always will.
As far as the whip goes, she is not scared of it what so ever! I can rub it all over her, swing it in the air, hell I can even sit on her back and crack it an she doesn’t flinch. Ive never hit her with it either! Personally I don’t like whips, for any reason. I do use a lunge with sometimes with other horses, but if she will listen to my hand signals and voice while lunging, I don’t see why not using a whip is a problem.
Maybe I am over my head a tad bit, because she is the first horse ive ever worked with to exert this kind of behavior towards me. But I have made some progress, and any progress is good! So we will take it slow. Starting from the ground up!
I still think this horse is outside your skill set.
No shame in that.
As far as the whip goes, she is not scared of it what so ever! I can rub it all over her, swing it in the air, hell I can even sit on her back and crack it an she doesn’t flinch
You said she charged you with it when you longed her with it. Your words, not mine.
The problem with that is that right there she is either demonstrating fear or a lack of respect. One or the other. And that will carry over into the saddle.
This forum is for helpful advice. And based on what you told us, our advice is to let a pro handle this very dangerous situation. If you misrepresented the situation, that isn’t our fault, we can only give you advice based on the words you wrote.
That you do not LIKE the advice given is not the same as it not being helpful.
I’ve got over 30 years of equine experience under my belt, including many many problem horses, and I would not get on the horse you have described until I could longe her both ways calmly (with the longe whip). I would also get her skilled at moving her body around from light touches on the ground. I’d have a helper to get on her. And the first step I would ask her for would be a sideways one. Horses that blow up to the point of falling down are very dangerous. I’d rather not read the obituary of kfallon.
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