Find another trainer, why are you paying money to “fix” someone else’s horse??
You just starting riding after a 8 yr. hiatus, the last thing you need is a problem horse.:eek:
Shame on the trainer for blowing you off.:o
[QUOTE=alteruniverse;3952157]
My trainer usually ends up yelling at me, saying that it’s my job to school the horse and that i’m letting him run out or refuse. My trainer knows the horse does this and has been doing this for years now . [/QUOTE]
I own a horse similar to this and rode with a trainer similar to this. This is nonsense. Either the trainer gets on this horse and tunes him up, or removes this horse from the lesson program.
You do not own this horse, hence you have no training goals for this horse. Your goal is to get back into riding and build confidence.
You are taking 3 lessons a week, which is a steady income. I assume your check cashes quite nicely.
Surely there is another barn or another trainer, perhaps in another discipline. A trainer that is too busy to speak with a paying customer is basically giving this customer carte blanche to go somewhere else.
I agree with finding another trainer… who’s paying who anyway? Her job is to teach, and yours is to learn…not school her horse.
I guess I look at it differently…you as a rider are responsible to school every horse that you sit on. Riders are not passengers. You teach a horse something (good or bad) every time you ride. If my trainer said the above statement to me…that is how I would take it…whether I’m sitting on a lesson horse or my own horse. I understand about confidence…but I also think that you take lessons to learn how to ride. Not sit like a lump and be carted around. The OP is not a novice rider…and her trainer is expecting her to ride. If she is a nervous wreck…then I agree, she needs to talk to her trainer about how she is feeling and what she can do to become more confident because while riding should be challenging, it should also be fun. I suspect the OP is a better rider than she is giving herself credit for. We are hearing one side of the story here…the other side may be that the OP is a good rider who the trainer thinks needs to be pushed a bit to become and even better one.
[QUOTE=bornfreenowexpensive;3953092]
I guess I look at it differently…you as a rider are responsible to school every horse that you sit on. Riders are not passengers. You teach a horse something (good or bad) every time you ride. If my trainer said the above statement to me…that is how I would take it…whether I’m sitting on a lesson horse or my own horse. I understand about confidence…but I also think that you take lessons to learn how to ride. Not sit like a lump and be carted around. The OP is not a novice rider…and her trainer is expecting her to ride. If she is a nervous wreck…then I agree, she needs to talk to her trainer about how she is feeling and what she can do to become more confident because while riding should be challenging, it should also be fun. I suspect the OP is a better rider than she is giving herself credit for. We are hearing one side of the story here…the other side may be that the OP is a good rider who the trainer thinks needs to be pushed a bit to become and even better one.[/QUOTE]
Actually what it sounds like is the trainer doesn’t have appropriate school horses. They are trying to make the student responsible for fixing a horse that has some serious issues, which frankly is not an appropriate task for a novice or perhaps even an intermediate rider. ANY horse might offer a disobedience at some point in time, but one who has learned how to routinely take advantage over cross rails and small jumps is simply not suitable to learn on.
Riders who are learning ( or relearning ) to jump need to be able to focus on position, track, pace and distance - giving the horse an opportunity to make a good jump. Riding a horse that consistently seeks an opportunity to evade the rider and stop or run out is only going to teach the rider to be defensive, and is not going to build good fundamentals.
[QUOTE=Lucassb;3953214]
Actually what it sounds like is the trainer doesn’t have appropriate school horses. They are trying to make the student responsible for fixing a horse that has some serious issues, which frankly is not an appropriate task for a novice or perhaps even an intermediate rider. ANY horse might offer a disobedience at some point in time, but one who has learned how to routinely take advantage over cross rails and small jumps is simply not suitable to learn on.
Riders who are learning ( or relearning ) to jump need to be able to focus on position, track, pace and distance - giving the horse an opportunity to make a good jump. Riding a horse that consistently seeks an opportunity to evade the rider and stop or run out is only going to teach the rider to be defensive, and is not going to build good fundamentals.[/QUOTE]
Thank you, Lucassb. Since I am a re-rider, my mind knows what to do, but my body is having a slower time adjusting to what my mind tells it to do. Then, when the horse refuses or runs out, and my trainer yells, my mind just goes blank and I get mad at myself for not being able to ride like I used to. True, I don’t want to be a passenger, but I feel that I should at least have correct form over small jumps, which will in turn give me more confidence. It’s hard to do this when I ride defensively.
Your trainer should be grateful for your patronage. You should tell him politely but as firmly as necessary that you would like to ride the other school horse that you get along with. There is no reason that a school horse should make you terrified in every lesson. Obviously you are overhorsed, and that is not your fault, it is the fault of your trainer.
Get a new trainer. At this point, I don’t think riding a different horse with this trainer will do you any good.
Shortly after I started jumping, I requested to ride a horse who I knew to be somewhat challenging (although I had NO IDEA how much so at the time!). My instructor said okay, and we took it very very slowly (ie, trotting elevated poles and walking the first pole in a line then picking up the trot just before the second “jump”), even though I’d been doing decently on another lesson horse. I wanted to keep riding him, but as I started doing more, I understood WHY almost no one jumped him… he was terrible! He’d rush to fences and stop dirty. I fell off a lot. But I WANTED to ride him. I kept asking to ride him, and my instructor let me. I even started leasing him (and still do, nearly three years later–we’re an old married couple at this point :lol: ). But three things: 1. I always wanted to ride him. Even if I was nervous or downright scared of jumping him, I wanted to do it. Never once was I made to ride him. 2. My instructor told me the reason she let me keep riding him was because she knew I could handle him. Even if it wasn’t always pretty. 3. She regularly encouraged me to ride different–and, yes, easier–horses. And that helped my confidence a LOT. Jumping is a lot more fun on a horse that you can trust to actually jump! There’s a lot to be said for riding challenging horses… but when your confidence is shattered to the point where you can’t ride effectively, it’s not doing you any good.
But the point of my longwinded story is… even if you WANT to ride this horse, your instructor needs to see that it’s not great for your confidence and put you on a horse you can trust, at least for a little while. And if you don’t want to ride the horse, you shouldn’t have to. But by now, the instructor has made it perfectly clear he’s more concerned about getting the horse schooled than he is about you learning and improving. Find a new trainer.
Find Another Trainer?
Wow, this trainer sounds like a hard one. Confidence can not be willed or bought. Just a little less than a year ago my then trainer yelled at me (during a jumping lesson) to “get a dressage saddle”. Okay, dressage is great but I wasn’t paying her to teach me dressage. So I left and went to a trainer more experienced with timid riders and now I am back to 4’ and loving it. I still get nervous some of the time. I had a bad head injury with the previous trainer (surprise) but I am getting more confident everyday.
DON’T GIVE UP!
[QUOTE=alteruniverse;3953467]
Thank you, Lucassb. Since I am a re-rider, my mind knows what to do, but my body is having a slower time adjusting to what my mind tells it to do. Then, when the horse refuses or runs out, and my trainer yells, my mind just goes blank and I get mad at myself for not being able to ride like I used to. True, I don’t want to be a passenger, but I feel that I should at least have correct form over small jumps, which will in turn give me more confidence. It’s hard to do this when I ride defensively.[/QUOTE]
It may seem ironic, but to be an effective rider, the very lst thing you need to do is to become a good, relaxed “passenger”-- i.e., to be capable of a correct active seat, you first need to acquire a sensitive, well-balanced passive one-- that’s why students at the Spanish Riding School spend their first months learning to “just sit” on a horse piaffing between the pillars.
One of my favorite passages from one of my favorite articles on riding (from the Riding Instructors’ Newsletter) says “Riding is 5% the aids, 10% confidence, and 85% learning to stay out of the horse’s way.” Others say things like “the release is more important than the aid,” “ask your horse, then ALLOW him to do what you ask…” Obviously, you cannot do that if you feel you need to hang on for dear life, and/or “make” the horse do his job. As a returning rider, your #1 job is to rediscover your ability to maintain your balance in movement (i.e., “go with the horse”), so you can be in a position to correct a horse’s mistakes-- and immediately “let go” when he responds to the correction. You are clearly in no state of mind or body to do that right now. It’s your trainer’s and his “schoolie’s” responsibility to get you there. They are seriously overfacing you in demanding that you take “responsibility” for the horse’s problems.
Which brings up the issue of responsibility to the horse: a spooking, stopping horse is clearly one who lacks confidence himself and therefore requires a confident rider to work him through his own fears-- certainly not one whose own confidence is being eroded with every ride! The present situation is a case of blind leading the blind, most likely with each of you getting worse instead of better with each “lesson.” IMO, you’d be a whole lot better off taking one really good lesson/month-- or maybe even none at all-- than continuing this damaging spiral.
(Don’t even ask me how I know this ;)!)
demand a different horse. so what if the other lady is riding the more suitable mount, let her take a turn on the horse that refuses. you shouldn’t have to sacrifice your confidence every week. riding horses that refuse jumps is good for building up your riding skills, but if you ride him every week and all the time your efforts are in vain, then it is only making your riding experience a nightmare. At least that is what it would be like for me.
What if you take some private lessons. then you can ride the other school horse to get your confidence back. I would try and confide in your instructor a little and if she isn’t cooperative, i would find a new one! Does she ever hop on the horse at all?
You’re welcome. And please don’t beat yourself up; there is a reason that people start on quiet, easy horses - it’s because that allows them to develop the skills and muscle memory that are required. You simply can’t do that if you are constantly focused on trying not to hit the dirt. And those defensive habits, once ingrained, are a b*tch to correct, so you are wise to put a halt to this process now.
I personally won’t pay someone to yell at me. It doesn’t help me learn, and since riding is something I do for enjoyment, I don’t allow the environment to be negative. My trainer knows and appreciates that she always has my full attention and my best effort during lessons, and if for some reason I am not “getting” what she is trying to teach, she knows that it is not for lack of trying. She will adjust her approach, explain it a different way or whatever - but she doesn’t yell. I have made a ton of progress with her, and have enjoyed the process immensely… find yourself someone like that, and get back to having fun. Good luck!
The trainer may also be trying to make it seem like your fault when in fact the problem is: he has a schoolie that stops all the time. It doesn’t sound like that horse is a safe schoolie at all. In this legal day and age, that is a negligence suit waiting to happen.
- Your trainer should not be yelling at you.
- Your trainer should not be dismissing your concerns about your safety on this horse.
- You are not schooling the school horse, you are riding the school horse. (The trainer should be schooling the school horse.)
- No trainer should be too busy to talk to a student about their concerns, especially safety concerns. It sounds like this trainer has you cowed and that’s unacceptable.
- In no time at all, with or without a fall, you will stop having fun and stop riding UNLESS you make a change.
So what to do?
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Have a serious heart-to-heart with trainer, with expectations that this probably won’t work. Maybe you only flat this horse and ride something else over fences? Maybe you half lease something else at this barn? Even if this trainer thinks you’re capable of riding through the spooks THAT DOESN’T MATTER. If you’re not comfortable, that’s the bottom line.
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Be willing to drive farther and get child care so you can ride some place safe and fun. If this trainer is the only one in your area he/she feels she has a corner on the market and it’s clearly her way or the highway. Choose the highway.
Sorry. This sucks . . .
I agree, you need a new trainer
There’s no point in destroying your confidence by riding a horse that is not teaching you anything except being afraid to jump it. I’d find another trainer with an appropriate school horse so you can get your confidence back.
By your responses to some of the posts it sounds like you have already made up your mind and you are not comfortable with the trainer and their practices. Even the most successful trainer is not going to suit the sensibilities of every rider, and you have to find the situation that works best for you. So you should be comfortable with changing trainers.
I obviously don’t know the horse or the entirety of the circumstances, but playing devil’s advocate for a minute, is it possible that the horse is not as bad as you believe, but is simply taking advantage of you. It would not be the first horse that is intelligent enough to figure out how to exploit rider’s weaknesses, especially a horse that has been used as a school horse. In a perfect world a school horse should take care of you, but those school horses are not as common as one would think, and the more asked of a horse, the harder that ultimate school horse threshold is to obtain.
As one posted stated perhaps the trainer see’s more in you than you do and consequently has greater expectations of your riding, and perhaps you need to address the way the trainer addresses you in lessons, resolve that area of dissatisfaction, and focus on sending that Wiley sucker down to the fences between your legs and hands and making him jump, position be damned, until the horse realizes you are not one to be toyed with, and falls into line. This is not the perfect schooling scenario, but it is as much part of riding education, as is any other. I guarantee you your confidence, your position; everything about your riding will improve tenfold if you are able to accomplish this. That’s my little pep talk 
However I completely understand if that is not somewhere you feel you can go at this point in time.
Best of luck, either way!
Is the trainer actually getting on this horse and schooling it? If it is just getting ridden in lessons, it probably learned it could get away with this.
I agree that a good rider should have to ride past some stopping issues, but it’s another thing when it’s an inveterate stopper and you’re not learning anything from the experience.
When it comes down to it, you’re paying to have an enjoyable experience and learn to ride at the level you are comfortable. Especially when you’re an adult with a family and limited time!
I agree with almost everything on here, but I am going to voice a little difference and hopefully voice it as pleasant as possible.
I understand from a trainers perspective of having you “push” through a problem. Learning how to ride a looky or spooky horse can be a valuable tool to have. Often times a horse like this will learn when can get away with this behavior and it is usually do to a rider not giving a clear or correct signal. (there that was that I think it came out all right;))
However I agree with everyone else about getting the heck out of dodge and here is why.
It’s not that you can’t do it, it’s the fact that your trainer does not inspire confidence in you. All of my students that I have pushed to continue to ride a tough horse have later came to me and told me that I gave them the confidence to do it even when they thought they couldn’t.
When approach by a student who is having a problem (especially one that could lead to a confidence problem) It’s the job of the trainer to listen, evaluate, and then discuss with their client how they feel they should handle it. I have had some people who just needed a little extra push and some who needed to change horses.
A trainer is not a good trainer if they just tell you that you should know and leave it at that ( I had a teacher like that in high school beginner physics type stuff, he was a russian with a PhD in nuclear physics and when we asked a question he just yelled that it was not hard and we should just get it!) This is the same thing. Yes he could be a great horse trainer and rider but that does not mean he is a good People trainer!
Try to call him like you suggested, tell him how you feel and why. If you get the same response then I think it would be better to go to a farther barn an ride less then ride more and have your confidence ripped apart and never want to ride again
Thanks for all the great advice/words of encouragement/opinions! I would like to respond more often, but don’t get too many breaks at work - i’m in investment banking (thankfully still have my job!) and my work schedule can be ridiculous. It’s a miracle that I find time to ride three times a week and take care of my family.
A lot of you were wondering if the trainer rides the horse - not that I know of. I suspect he trains his clients’ horses before he would train a school horse. He does have a younger girl riding the horse I ride, but she never jumps with him - just hacks around with him so he gets some exercise.
At first I also thought that maybe he’s having me ride this horse because he knows I can. But then I also feel he should be answering my questions and addressing my concerns instead of turning to the other rider and giving her more ride time and attention and letting me figure it out on my own.
My plan is to eventually lease or half lease a horse - but i’ll be looking at other barns to do so.
I think you may be facing the problem of a trainer who is not aware of the skill set required to teach adults or does not have adequate experience teaching them to understand that they learn very differently from kids/teens.
Adults have very rational fears, and are not easily convinced of their abilities by being “pushed” through activities sucessfully. Kids/teens may be able to be taught this way, especially if they are gutsy - they do something once and they believe they can do it again.
In my experience, adults need to work through specific and very progressive steps, and in their mind believe they have mastered each step before moving on to the next one -whether or not the trainer feels they have mastered the step is not the issue, the adult must also believe it.
In your case, the trainer may well see that you have the ability to push the horse over the fences, however, the issue is that YOU do not currently believe this is the case.
Does this trainer have a lot of adult clientele?
Also, how do you honestly feel about your overall comfort of riding? Could you benefit from some work on securing your position before you truly feel ready to be jumping? No shame in admitting this to yourself and your trainer. Good luck.
