Horse Running on Loose Rein Trot

[Skitten]

I am new to dressage and I normally ride a jumper who is pretty consistent with his gaits. Unfortunately he came up lame this week after the farrier visited, and I have to ride another horse on Saturday for my test.
This horse was a well trained dressage horse in his younger days, but for the past 5 + years he has been teaching little kids to ride and jumping and not doing much dressage at all.

We are doing a training level 3 test with a canter circle at E and then trot at C, and then we have to do a loose rein trot at B. The first half of the circle is fine when I lengthen the reins, but he runs for the second half of the circle. I try to slow him with my body by posting slower but he doesn’t seem to respond to that.
He seems to think picking up the reins means go faster, because if we are doing a free walk and I slowly pick up my reins he immediately tries to trot forward.

These are the two parts of the test I am having trouble with, I try to be very quiet when picking up my reins to prevent him from getting excited and wanting to run forward. My reins sometimes are still too long for our next transition.

Is there anything I can try in my lesson today that might help to relax this horse when I am picking up my reins? The test is quite manageable other than the two points where I am coming from a free walk/ stretchy trot.

[luvmydutch]

In my experience, running at the trot is a symptom of anxiety in the horse. I make sure all my horses can walk trot and canter on the buckle calmly before starting any dressage work. I teach my horses to bend to a stop, and if they break gait, we bend to a stop to tip out their anxiety, then i ask them to go again. I would work on teaching your horse to trot on the buckle, and if he tries to rush or canter, bend him to a stop to tip out that anxiety. It won’t take him long to feel better about trotting confidently. Then you can go back to layering the contact back in. This exercise really teaches the horse to control his own emotions, so the contact can work more effectively. An anxious horse is missing that “relaxation” foundational piece of the training pyramid.

[Angela_Freda]

Knowing how to ride from your seat, to steer and regulate speed from your seat is helpful.
He may be rusty at it, but I bet that button still exists, and perhaps OP finding it would be helpful?

[soloudinhere]

@luvmydutch

In my experience, running at the trot is a symptom of anxiety in the horse. I make sure all my horses can walk trot and canter on the buckle calmly before starting any dressage work. I teach my horses to bend to a stop, and if they break gait, we bend to a stop to tip out their anxiety, then i ask them to go again. I would work on teaching your horse to trot on the buckle, and if he tries to rush or canter, bend him to a stop to tip out that anxiety. It won’t take him long to feel better about trotting confidently. Then you can go back to layering the contact back in. This exercise really teaches the horse to control his own emotions, so the contact can work more effectively. An anxious horse is missing that “relaxation” foundational piece of the training pyramid.

I confess I have been riding for 25 years and I have no idea what you could be describing by “bend to a stop” and how that would somehow reduce anxiety in the horse.

[Skitten]

After doing some more reading I think that maybe I am doing the loose rein incorrectly. I just lengthen the reins, not to the buckle, but I certainly no longer have a contact. Maybe if I somehow maintain a light contact with a longer rein, he wouldn’t get excited when I am picking them up again. And then it should be easier to pick them up in time for our next transition. Any thoughts on this?

The jumper I was supposed to ride for this test doesn’t have this problem at all, so I was free to literally drop and pick up my reins without him trying to rush forward. Perhaps he gave me a bad habit lol.

[Dressagelvr]

This horse needs to be retrained so that he’s over his back and on your seat, not the hand. Being a school horse has done away with his good training, and it will take correct riding to get it back.

Do you have a Dressage trainer to help?
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[Angela_Freda]

@Skitten

After doing some more reading I think that maybe I am doing the loose rein incorrectly. I just lengthen the reins, not to the buckle, but I certainly no longer have a contact. Maybe if I somehow maintain a light contact with a longer rein, he wouldn’t get excited when I am picking them up again. And then it should be easier to pick them up in time for our next transition. Any thoughts on this?

The jumper I was supposed to ride for this test doesn’t have this problem at all, so I was free to literally drop and pick up my reins without him trying to rush forward. Perhaps he gave me a bad habit lol.

I am not familiar with the trot on loose rein, but rather the free walk… but this says no contact:
http://www.academieduello.com/news-b…rk-loose-rein/

[Sancudo]

You maintain a similar contact on the stretch trot as you would the working trot- but you allow the horse to take the rein by stretching their neck forward, down, and out. As your lengthen the rein the contact should remain consistent but the frame lengthens. There should be no loop in the reins or loss of contact. It is a test of the connection and the expandability of your horse.

[ThreeFigs]

Wha Sancudo said. It’s not a loose rein trot, it’s a stretchy trot. Maintain contact with the bit as you encourage the horse to stretch. I imagine trying to ride this movement on a “loose” rein is the reason the horse loses his cool. Practice a million transitions between a working walk or trot and the free walk and/or stretchy trot until the horse gets used to it without speeding up.

We’ve all been there at one time or another.

[luvmydutch]

Bend to a stop is the same as a one rein stop…as opposed to pulling back with 2 reins to stop the horse. If he is trained to stop off your seat that would work as well. I use horsemanship (western/natural horsemanship) in addition to dressage training, and that is a commonly used term.

I realize most dressage riders aren’t into the horsemanship scene so take my advice with a grain of salt if you aren’t into that stuff I have had great results with it though!

[Angela_Freda]

@Sancudo

You maintain a similar contact on the stretch trot as you would the working trot- but you allow the horse to take the rein by stretching their neck forward, down, and out. As your lengthen the rein the contact should remain consistent but the frame lengthens. There should be no loop in the reins or loss of contact. It is a test of the connection and the expandability of your horse.

Thanks, this is the test I think, and the movement we’re talking about is 12 [B]?
https://files.usef.org/assets/PXdobl…leveltest3.pdf

OP on Google for ‘Training Level Test 3’ there are a bunch of videos, some indicate the score the rider got… those may help?

I just watched this one, at 5:42 she goes into the movement you’re talking about iirc?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zMDeipERfkI
And this one at 3:47 also has comments
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iRqdPZm63VM

[hoopoe]

for a horse that has not been in correct Dressage training consistently the stretch circle will be a challenge. The horse takes the rein forward down and out and it comes from correct balance and lift of the belly and stretch of the back. You are demonstrating a foundation of correct self carriage. For a “packing little kids around” horse this is going to be a challenge.

Maintain your asking and maintain your hands. Give hands only as much as he takes. It may be a while before you can show a full half circle smoothly. Remember your inside leg to outside rein connection. You may have some times where you need to press out off the circle to get him connected to the outside rein.

[SuzieQNutter]

There is a difference between walk on a long rein and walk on a loose rein. With a long rein you maintain contact with the horse lowering its head. The horse is supposed to take the reins down.

To do this takes a lot of strength from the horse. He may have lost that strength with incorrect work.

I would start with asking for walk on a long rein and trot on a long rein. Then progress to a loose rein if that is what it is asking for.

One rein stops are not used in dressage. Neither are other exercises used to disengage the hindquarters. We want to engage the hindquarters.

In dressage there is no pulling 2 reins to halt as posted above. There is no pulling on reins in dressage. The reins should never come back.

[Skitten]

@Angela Freda

Thanks, this is the test I think, and the movement we’re talking about is 12 [B]?
https://files.usef.org/assets/PXdobl…leveltest3.pdf

Yes that is the test. In the video it seems as though she is giving all of the reins, which I think I am doing with my horse and it gives him the opportunity to run.

I realise now that I treated the free walk and the stretchy trot the same way, which is wrong. I think that maintaining a contact would help the stretchy trot, but I may still need a bit of advice when picking up the reins from the free walk.

It’s unfortunate that I only have 2 days to work on this with him. I don’t expect miracles of course in such a short space of time but anything that will help these sore points and my riding him in general will be greatly appreciated.

[Dressagelvr]

The problem is that in order to follow the hand, the horse needs to be correctly over the back into contact. He’ll need some correct re-schooling and the rider will need to learn how to maintain that.

[luvmydutch]

@SuzieQNutter

One rein stops are not used in dressage. Neither are other exercises used to disengage the hindquarters. We want to engage the hindquarters.

I know I agree that most people don’t use the horesmanship type training in dressage which is fine. However, I know some very very successful grand prix dressage riders that DO use horsemanship. Anyway to each their own.

OP, I have also had luck with getting my horse to really stretch down into the contact by making sure my horse is truly off my inside leg. By really utilizing the inside leg to outside rein and getting him to bend around your leg, you will stimulate that seeking reflex and really help him relax. In schooling I would try and really get him supple as well by using the various suppling exercises to make sure he is supple from the jaw all the way back to his hindquarters.

When doing the stretchy trot…make sure you are actively using your inside leg…his response should be to soften in the ribcage and reach down for the contact. Don’t make him dull to it…in other words don’t use it over and over with no response. Use it as needed and expect a true response.

[Angela_Freda]

@Skitten

Yes that is the test. In the video it seems as though she is giving all of the reins, which I think I am doing with my horse and it gives him the opportunity to run.

I realise now that I treated the free walk and the stretchy trot the same way, which is wrong. I think that maintaining a contact would help the stretchy trot, but I may still need a bit of advice when picking up the reins from the free walk.

It’s unfortunate that I only have 2 days to work on this with him. I don’t expect miracles of course in such a short space of time but anything that will help these sore points and my riding him in general will be greatly appreciated.

To me [and this is the blind leading the blind here so hopefully the more accomplished Dresage peeps will chime in again] I would say look at those videos [there are a bunch on YouTube, and many include scores so you can pick/choose ‘better’ ones] look at the riders posting.
Your posting can dictate his speed and tempo. Watch how those riders maintain a really good speed and tempo with their posting…

[Libby2563]

^ This. It’s not a “loose rein trot.” The horse should be stretching into the bit as you allow him to lengthen his neck and stretch down and out. Try the exercise with more contact and see if that helps the running. I find that bend helps keep the stretch and rhythm on the stretchy circle as well, so try to keep him around your inside leg.

For the walk, he might be anticipating the transition rather than having anxiety. Practice many transitions from free walk (loose reins) to medium walk (on the contact) without trotting after the medium walk. Also make sure that you continue to follow the motion of the walk as you pick up the reins tactfully, to help reinforce that he is to keep walking. If he breaks to trot, don’t make a big deal out of it, just quietly bring him back and resume walking on contact until he settles. Don’t practice the walk pattern from your test so he cannot learn to anticipate the trot transition.

[SuzieQNutter]

@luvmydutch

I know I agree that most people don’t use the horesmanship type training in dressage which is fine. However, I know some very very successful grand prix dressage riders that DO use horsemanship. Anyway to each their own.

Yes and I am one who uses horsemanship to train horses.

As I said it will take strength from the horse not quick fixes. Picking the rein up again with no reaction start with a long rein walk and pick that up with no reaction. Then progress to a long rein trot and pick that up with no reaction. Then progress to free walk with no reaction. Then free trot with no reaction.

Other than that patience and plenty of praise. It is not his fault you only have 2 days. Be aware if you are making him sore with using muscles he hasn’t used in a long time and enjoy the day instead of stressing about what he is not able to do yet.

[Angela_Freda]

What about the exercise of counting quarters on a 20M?
You ride a 20M at a trot, and each quarter of the circle should have the same number of strides?
That can really help you tune in to your tempo and speed… if each quarter has the same number of steps.
If you then attempt is on a stretching contact…? It can also teach you how your seat contributes to establishing that… ride more forward for fewer steps,… less forward for more steps… all focusing on producing those differences from your seat/posting?

I really enjoyed that exercise, it really helped see where one is losing the even-ness of your tempo/speed.

Anyone? Good idea? Bad idea?