So, back in January I, with the help of my trainer, purchased a backyard gelding from another girl who trained with my trainer. I say backyard because at 14 he has had NO proper training. You might be wondering why I would want this guy, and he is amazing you can do anything with him he has wonderful conformation. He will also jump anything you put in front of him. That being said he has an abusive past. And he is VERY sensitive. The girl that used to own thought he was part saddlebred because he Has a natural high headset. In reality it’s because she doesn’t believe in equine dentists and he was in a lot of pain. We got his teeth done in May. That first ride after he started stretching down more but only in walk. He runs from contact in trot and canter. My trainer suggests that I gather up a good bit of rein and plant my hands on his neck, so that when he pulls he is pulling against himself, but it will take me awhile to get used to this ride because I have pretty short arms and this makes me feel like I’m too forward because of where she wants me to put my hands. If I get him into frame at trot he doesn’t keep it for long before he starts jerking his head around. He also tends to put himself BTV. Any contact during canter however worries him and he tends to run. I use a Snaffle on him because of his sensitive mouth. I was wondering if any of you had any advice on getting him to accept contact in all gaits, even if you just tell me to listen to my trainer. I would love to build a nice topline with him too. *added note we usually use a standing martingale on him as he does throw his head up in canter sometimes, we put a running martingale on him because he likes to run and this just freaked him out, as soon as I put the bridle on him he put himself BTV and pulled back.
I would work a horse like this on the lunge line with sidereins adjusted VERY loose to start. Gradually shortened as the horse accepts the contact.
I have also ridden horses like this with a bitless bridle, adding a snaffle with no reins to begin, and then riding with two sets of reins with very little contact to start.
Takes a lot of time for them to begin to trust the hand.
Ok, so since contact moves with the horse he can’t run from it - do you mean he runs through it?
I’m confused by your post if he is pulling against the contact or ducking behind it, as you seem to indicate both. Or is it just different at different gaits?
[QUOTE=partlycloudy;8321309]
I would work a horse like this on the lunge line with sidereins adjusted VERY loose to start. Gradually shortened as the horse accepts the contact.
I have also ridden horses like this with a bitless bridle, adding a snaffle with no reins to begin, and then riding with two sets of reins with very little contact to start.
Takes a lot of time for them to begin to trust the hand.[/QUOTE]
This, and its because it gives the horse the opportunity to find his balance, and find out that the contact is the most comfortable place to stay. The side reins do not give. He has to adjust. A very important point is to make sure that you adjust the inside rein slight shorter than the outside. This will ask him to bend. Bend is your friend. It will be like yoga for him, he will develop the shoulder and back/topline to hold himself, which is why he can’t do this yet at the trot. Canter may be a year away.
When you are riding him, you want to work on bend. At a walk. Bend, then straight; bend a few steps, then straight. Ask him to hold the bend on the bit for just one or two steps, then let him breathe.
You have no idea how hard this is to do, and if a horse has never done it, it is a slow slow process to teach.
Do not go bitless. This horse will learn how to seek contact, but you have to know how to teach him. Use a baucher, which sits up off the bars, and a double jointed snaffle which won’t poke him in the roof of the mouth and gives him something to play with.
If he can’t do it on the longe, he cant do it with you on the back. What you teach him from the ground, he will automatically know how to interpret when you ride him.
Another thing to consider: you wrote he will “go in a frame” but only for short periods before he starts to fuss. This is likely because you are asking him to build new muscles, and he is tiring easily (or even getting muscle cramps). He is fussing because he needs a break/release. Ask for short periods, and then give him a break BEFORE he starts to fuss. As his muscles develop and his posture changes, he will be able to give you more for longer, but it is not a short road you are on!
Same with if you decide to go with side reins. Make sure to give him a break OFTEN or he will associate giving with his jaw/poll with being in pain/cramping up. You do not want this negative association, so take it slow.
Listen. To. Your. Trainer.
Except for the cantering part. I wouldn’t let you canter him until you can walk and trot all sorts of figures and make really nice transitions without moving your hands. The work your trainer gave you is as much about you learning to use your body more effectively as it is to allow him to accept the contact of your hands and your legs.
It’s going to teach you that the answer is always, “More leg.” Horse ducks behind your contact? More leg to push his snout back out and get him working more honestly with you.
Horse tries to run away? More leg and a firmer lower back will re-balance him.
It will work. Good luck and lots of patience!
p.s. if you really honestly have short arms, get yourself a holy shit strap (bucking strap, whatever you want to call it) and grab it at the beginning of your ride and pull slightly upwards. Do not let any slack come between your hands and the dee rings. Keep that strap taut so that you are truly keeping your hands 100% still.
[QUOTE=Ambitious Kate;8321335]
You have no idea how hard this is to do, and if a horse has never done it, it is a slow slow process to teach.
Do not go bitless. This horse will learn how to seek contact, but you have to know how to teach him.[/QUOTE]
Hard for the inexperienced person, but not for the professional, which might be the wisest solution.
January to May to September is a long timeline for sorting this out. The implication is that the horse needs work and consistency. A rider with timing and tact can make an enormous turnaround with a project like this in 30 days of full training.
Personally I couldn’t cope with this issue for nearly a year on a new horse. But I’m old and impatient. I’m not sure the fix can be described online. I’d do whatever it takes to get full training with an effective trainer who’s been there done that with a sensitive re-schooling project. And watch and lesson as frequently as you are able.
AB, why not bit less for a few rides? I like to have them just hold the bit in their mouth (no reins) while being ridden so they learn to not fear it.
Shrug, had some success with this method.
So why do you need “contact” on a horse that basically has never been properly trained to be ridden?
Even at his (advanced) age, treat him like a newly broke horse…they don’t go “on contact” when they are just broke. They learn the voice commands and are ridden from the voice while the process of introducing steering and reins is done.
You say he is very sensitive. A sensitive horse requires a sensitive rider. If he is as good a soul as you describe, he will learn to obey voice commands easily. Then ride him on a loose rein until you and him can learn to communicate.
If he is indeed as sensitive as you indicate, he will learn to stop, slow, and rebalance from your seat and position…NOT from your hands and reins.
Try to listen to the horse.
[QUOTE=Miranda.Rudy;8321290]
My trainer suggests that I gather up a good bit of rein and plant my hands on his neck, so that when he pulls he is pulling against himself, but it will take me awhile to get used to this ride because I have pretty short arms and this makes me feel like I’m too forward because of where she wants me to put my hands. [/QUOTE]
I feel like I need to add a very important point here - in dressage, there is really no such thing as “Too Much Forward”. (OK, I get you mean that you, the rider, are sitting too far forward, but hear me out). You have a horse that’s been whacked in the teeth repeatedly, and is probably REALLY defensive about contact. He doesn’t understand that nice contact can be useful to him and make everything much easier.
Now, is he “running” from contact as in bolting? Or is he losing his balance and getting on the forehand and rushing? Big difference. If it’s rushing, you have to learn NOT to panic and pull, rather, keep your hands quiet and use your body position to rebalance him. If you end up going faster than you intended for a little while, no big deal, just keep rebalancing and he’ll probably come to a conclusion similar to “hey, no pain in my teeth - why was I running away again? Oh, she wants me to slow down, OK.”
I know this because this was me. My mare would feel me get a bit forward in the saddle and busy on the rein because we were approaching the Scary Arena corner, and she would grab the bit and break into a rather unnerving fast canter down the long side. Rather than have me haul the mare to a stop and try again (which really wasn’t going to work), my trainer would just yell advice regarding how I should sit up and rebalance, and I’d get the trot back somewhere at the other end of the arena. It took many, many, repetitions before I managed to sit UP and not pull. But it worked.
AND, more importantly, the mare was in front of my leg the whole time. So my position flaws were eventually corrected without sacrificing the horses’s “go button”.
I would say to think about your trainer’s advice. If the trainer is telling you that contact comes only from the hands then rethink who you want to learn from.
If the horse doesn’t know any different, then the rules are:- legs mean go. Reins mean turn or stop and do not use both at the same time.
If you use both at the same time on a horse that does not understand, you will end up with a confused horse. It is a confused horse that shakes it’s head, opens its mouth, bolts, spins, rears, Bucks and bolts.
You are trying to teach a horse that does not know, does not have the desire to go into contact and does not speak English.
You do not know the language of contact either.
So the best thing is for you to learn from a horse that already knows. It is also easier for him to learn from a rider who already knows.
As above I would use sidereins. Sidereins do not injure and kill horses. It is incorrect use of sidereins that injure and kill horses. They should not be walked in side reins - you will ruin the walk. They should not be used to ‘pull a horses head in’.
You are starting a wondrous journey. Enjoy every second of it. You will still be learning about it the day you die. Hopefully after a long and happy life.
I would say to think about your trainer’s advice. If the trainer is telling you that contact comes only from the hands then rethink who you want to learn from.
If the horse doesn’t know any different, then the rules are:- legs mean go. Reins mean turn or stop and do not use both at the same time.
If you use both at the same time on a horse that does not understand, you will end up with a confused horse. It is a confused horse that shakes it’s head, opens its mouth, bolts, spins, rears, Bucks and bolts.
You are trying to teach a horse that does not know, does not have the desire to go into contact and does not speak English.
You do not know the language of contact either.
So the best thing is for you to learn from a horse that already knows. It is also easier for him to learn from a rider who already knows.
As above I would use sidereins. Sidereins do not injure and kill horses. It is incorrect use of sidereins that injure and kill horses. They should not be walked in side reins - you will ruin the walk. They should not be used to ‘pull a horses head in’.
You are starting a wondrous journey. Enjoy every second of it. You will still be learning about it the day you die. Hopefully after a long and happy life.
Re-training the horse to trust the hand is one of the most difficult things to accomplish. Work on the ground in sidereins is most helpful along with ridden work with a running martingale but the most important aspect is an educated, sensitive, rider who knows how to set parameters and releases when it is most effective. Start at the bottom of the training scale with rhythm and relaxation. Encourage forward, out and down at the walk and go from there. It’s a long process. JMHO
I have also ridden horses like this with a bitless bridle, adding a snaffle with no reins to begin, and then riding with two sets of reins with very little contact to start.
THIS
I think you are concentrating on the wrong end of the horse. The fact that this horse came from someone who also trained with your trainer makes me wonder. I know instructors are not always responsible for their students actions, as many students do try an instructor’s patience.
If you are setting your hands on the neck to keep him round, you are missing one of the main points of maintaining a comfortable round, and that is “a following” hand", which can only be accomplished by freeing up the rider’s elbow.
I tend to agree with Susie Q.
I’m working with a similar horse right now. She was started by a western trainer who used the harshest bit and longest shank she could find, took a steady contact on the 3" shank and spurred the poor horse into the contact. Her head was at her chest. Very ugly.
What I did first was abandon contact almost altogether. I’m using a very long rein so I can still help her if needed, but am leaving her on her own for balancing herself and getting her more educated to understanding my leg/seat instead of everything coming from the head. Once she started understanding what the legs/seat meant, I started adding the reins back in as just minimal passive contact, enough that she can feel me on the other end and little enough that she does not feel the need to try and duck it. In 3 rides, she was understanding and starting to relax.
We’re just starting to add contact back in. I’m being very careful to follow her head motion, keep her balanced so she doesn’t panic and feel the need to take off. She’s already starting to reach forward into the bridle at the walk and we’re soon going to take on the trot. For now, I can only get a few steps of balanced trot before she loses it and we have to downshift to walk.
I would say, concentrate on the bottom of the training scale. Give him a nice steady posting rhythm to trot to, and encourage him to stretch is head out and relax as much as he will offer. Keep just enough contact to help him stay balanced, and go back the walk as much as you need to help him stay balanced.
I’m curious as to why this horse’s problems weren’t addressed with the previous owner since the trainer is the same.
We had a horse whose owner/rider steadied herself on the reins and he started bracing against her hand and hollowing his back (probably what you feel). She quit riding him so we put him in a rubber dogbone bit and basically had to retrain him to relax and lift his back and accept contact. We worked him back to a double jointed lozenge snaffle but it took awhile and slow steps, as others have said.
As well as lunging in sidereins, lunging and riding with a loose/soft rein over cavalleti will help raise the back.
