Horse Sale Market

[vxf111]

@StormyDay

I think I am known on COTH as the crazy APHA/QH lady because I am always advocating for people to buy them has H/J horses. I am always running into ones with great conformation and skill for both jumpers and hunters. Many well put together QH/paints can easily do 1.20. They are usually awesome for Ammys too because they have great brains. I have known quite a few that kicked butt in the hunters, even A rated, but no one noticed they weren’t some sort of warmblood so it wasn’t talked about that they were an off breed.

This seems to be very very geographically variant. I WANTED to buy an APHA/AQHA this last go-round and could not find a suitable, large, hunter type already jumping around and with changes unless I went to Texas

[StormyDay]

@vxf111

This seems to be very very geographically variant. I WANTED to buy an APHA/AQHA this last go-round and could not find a suitable, large, hunter type already jumping around and with changes unless I went to Texas

I’m in VA and I see them all the time. I think you just have to have the right connections and know where to look.
Ecpolo: appendix are great too! I really think that all of these breeds are so underrated.
i really think amateur and teen riders get pushed to buy these super athletic but also super hard to ride horses. It’s sad because I think it turns people off from riding. Temperament is everything to me, which is why I love these breeds so much.

[vxf111]

@StormyDay

I’m in VA and I see them all the time. I think you just have to have the right connections and know where to look.
Ecpolo: appendix are great too! I really think that all of these breeds are so underrated.
i really think amateur and teen riders get pushed to buy these super athletic but also super hard to ride horses. It’s sad because I think it turns people off from riding. Temperament is everything to me, which is why I love these breeds so much.

Really? I looked all over VA. I would love seller/sales barn recommendations for next time if you think there are people regularly turning out USEF type QHs.

[buschkn]

@MustangTwist

I’ll soon be in the market for a 3 - 5 year old 1.20/1.30 jumper prospect - no show experience or fancy bloodlines required - and have been told that my budget (low to mid/low 5s) isn’t enough, at least not in the U.S. It’s pretty disheartening.

This is not true. You can absolutely find nice green horses in the US as 3-4yos that will jump 1.20m or 1.30m. I have two right now, one being a legitimate 1.60m prospect, the other for sure should do 1.30m later. You will, however, have a hard time finding 5yos already showing talent and/or going to shows for a low 5 budget.

But for sure, the prices have gone crazy for horses under saddle, especially any showing real ability and starting to hit the shows. It is becoming more and more prohibitively expensive to do this sport, sadly.

As for just “buying a TB broodmare and breeding my own”, this is absolutely not the way to get a top horse. Breeding is a total crapshoot and the mare is at least 60% of your equation, often more. If you are just breeding one horse, the chances it will come out the color, gender, ability, and temperament you want is slim to none. AND it is expensive to get a mare, care for her, pay breeding fee and vet costs, care for her pregnant, foal it out, then raise the baby for 3-5y before knowing if it will even do the job you want it to, and pray it doesn’t maim or kill itself in that timeframe. If you can’t afford to buy a decent young one, you are better off saving up your money for 5y and buying what you want than you would be to breed one yourself. JMHO as a rider and breeder. We have bred a bunch of super nice horses, and have recently quit. I’m tired of hemorrhaging money.

[findeight]

Breed one? You are talking 8 years from cover to a mature, finished horse ready to tackle the 1.3M+, thats a years gestation plus 7 years of growrh including 3 years of training. That’s IF everything goes perfectly. Put the money that would cost you every month in the bank and when half that 8 years, goes by, go buy that 4 or 5 year old for low to mid 5 figures.

[Oh_The_Places]

As much as we consider them a necessity, horses really are a luxury item. So good economy=expensive horses. Poor economy=more affordable horses.

[sixtysomething2]

Good post Buschkn

[MustangTwist]

@buschkn

This is not true. You can absolutely find nice green horses in the US as 3-4yos that will jump 1.20m or 1.30m. I have two right now, one being a legitimate 1.60m prospect, the other for sure should do 1.30m later. You will, however, have a hard time finding 5yos already showing talent and/or going to shows for a low 5 budget.

But for sure, the prices have gone crazy for horses under saddle, especially any showing real ability and starting to hit the shows. It is becoming more and more prohibitively expensive to do this sport, sadly.

As for just “buying a TB broodmare and breeding my own”, this is absolutely not the way to get a top horse. Breeding is a total crapshoot and the mare is at least 60% of your equation, often more. If you are just breeding one horse, the chances it will come out the color, gender, ability, and temperament you want is slim to none. AND it is expensive to get a mare, care for her, pay breeding fee and vet costs, care for her pregnant, foal it out, then raise the baby for 3-5y before knowing if it will even do the job you want it to, and pray it doesn’t maim or kill itself in that timeframe. If you can’t afford to buy a decent young one, you are better off saving up your money for 5y and buying what you want than you would be to breed one yourself. JMHO as a rider and breeder. We have bred a bunch of super nice horses, and have recently quit. I’m tired of hemorrhaging money.

That’s reassuring to hear. I should clarify that I would prefer something backed and - ideally - started over fences (even if just a few cross-rails). Doesn’t need a change, doesn’t need to be coursing, doesn’t need show experience, etc. I think one issue I’m running into is that, esp. if the horse doesn’t come from established bloodlines, I’d like to get a sense of how the horse jumps, its form, its instincts over fences, etc. Many American sellers seem unwilling to make free jump videos, which I completely understand from their perspective, but IMO it makes it harder to judge where that 3 year old may be at 13. Maybe I just don’t know what to look for in a horse that age. I brought along a young horse as a junior, but she was gifted to me as a weanling, so I didn’t really get the “shopping” experience. I just worked with what I had.

How did you go about finding yours? What sorts of breeders/sellers did you buy them from? What sorts of signs can you see in a 3 year old that might give you an indication it’ll be a good 1.30 horse down the road, as opposed to a passable 1.15 horse? Of course I realize there’s always some degree of risk, and you can never fully predict the future.

As for the discussion of buying a TB broodmare, I think you’re replying to another poster on that one.

[streamline]

@buschkn

This is not true. You can absolutely find nice green horses in the US as 3-4yos that will jump 1.20m or 1.30m. I have two right now, one being a legitimate 1.60m prospect, the other for sure should do 1.30m later. You will, however, have a hard time finding 5yos already showing talent and/or going to shows for a low 5 budget.

But for sure, the prices have gone crazy for horses under saddle, especially any showing real ability and starting to hit the shows. It is becoming more and more prohibitively expensive to do this sport, sadly.

As for just “buying a TB broodmare and breeding my own”, this is absolutely not the way to get a top horse. Breeding is a total crapshoot and the mare is at least 60% of your equation, often more. If you are just breeding one horse, the chances it will come out the color, gender, ability, and temperament you want is slim to none. AND it is expensive to get a mare, care for her, pay breeding fee and vet costs, care for her pregnant, foal it out, then raise the baby for 3-5y before knowing if it will even do the job you want it to, and pray it doesn’t maim or kill itself in that timeframe. If you can’t afford to buy a decent young one, you are better off saving up your money for 5y and buying what you want than you would be to breed one yourself. JMHO as a rider and breeder. We have bred a bunch of super nice horses, and have recently quit. I’m tired of hemorrhaging money.

I think you meant to reply to me :). Like I said breeding is a total crap shoot, unless my post never went through. The person you’re replying to wasn’t talking about breeding. It’s just a pipe dream for me. DH isn’t into mares. My mom breeds (for a different discipline) I know the mare is 60% of what you’re getting.

Im in no position to go buy a nice 3-4 year old that has the potential for 1.20+. I just bought a house and have a baby on the way along with two 5 year old horses and another horse that has a funny brain.

I also live in a remote area where we really have no pros who start/work with young jumper horses. We have lots to cowboys who start horses correctly and beautifully. Producing young horses is super expensive as well. When I was working for a smaller barn, in a different state with a great rider I got to see all the nice young imports and allllll the time that went into them.

[streamline]

@findeight

Breed one? You are talking 8 years from cover to a mature, finished horse ready to tackle the 1.3M+, thats a years gestation plus 7 years of growrh including 3 years of training. That’s IF everything goes perfectly. Put the money that would cost you every month in the bank and when half that 8 years, goes by, go buy that 4 or 5 year old for low to mid 5 figures.

That was me who was posting about breeding. Not the OP. Totally off topic and I don’t think I even suggested that for the OP.

[Limerick2017]

If I were looking for a reasonably priced horse to do the jumpers, I would go to the Thoroughbred Makeover in Kentucky in October. They have hunters and jumpers and field hunting etc. etc. I bet if you have a good eye, you will have an excellent group to choose from.

[jumpoff87]

@MustangTwist

I’ll soon be in the market for a 3 - 5 year old 1.20/1.30 jumper prospect - no show experience or fancy bloodlines required - and have been told that my budget (low to mid/low 5s) isn’t enough, at least not in the U.S. It’s pretty disheartening.

On the bright side, my trainer found one of those in Italy - a nice, pretty bay 7 year old gelding with 1.20 miles that could also do the eq. It was 22,000 euros; $37,000 US dollars with import, vetting, shipping and quarantine. If I had a dollar to spare, I would’ve jumped on that deal for sure.

[MustangTwist]

@jumpoff87

On the bright side, my trainer found one of those in Italy - a nice, pretty bay 7 year old gelding with 1.20 miles that could also do the eq. It was 22,000 euros; $37,000 US dollars with import, vetting, shipping and quarantine. If I had a dollar to spare, I would’ve jumped on that deal for sure.

Oh absolutely. While I would love to support American breeders, for a lot of people buying overseas means they have more options at a better value.

[buschkn]

@MustangTwist

That’s reassuring to hear. I should clarify that I would prefer something backed and - ideally - started over fences (even if just a few cross-rails). Doesn’t need a change, doesn’t need to be coursing, doesn’t need show experience, etc. I think one issue I’m running into is that, esp. if the horse doesn’t come from established bloodlines, I’d like to get a sense of how the horse jumps, its form, its instincts over fences, etc. Many American sellers seem unwilling to make free jump videos, which I completely understand from their perspective, but IMO it makes it harder to judge where that 3 year old may be at 13. Maybe I just don’t know what to look for in a horse that age. I brought along a young horse as a junior, but she was gifted to me as a weanling, so I didn’t really get the “shopping” experience. I just worked with what I had.

How did you go about finding yours? What sorts of breeders/sellers did you buy them from? What sorts of signs can you see in a 3 year old that might give you an indication it’ll be a good 1.30 horse down the road, as opposed to a passable 1.15 horse? Of course I realize there’s always some degree of risk, and you can never fully predict the future.

As for the discussion of buying a TB broodmare, I think you’re replying to another poster on that one.

Yes I know, I was replying to two different people and posts, sorry for any confusion. As for my nice babies I’m selling, I bred them and raised them. I have a lot of experience evaluating young jumpers. But that being said, even with all my years doing this, I would NEVER buy a jumper prospect without either being able to see it free jump, or being able to ride it and jump a few fences. You are absolutely correct to be able to want those things when you were looking at horses that are 3-5yo. Ok we don’t free jump foals usually, but there is zero reason not to free jump a 3yo to get a video for buyers. The horses are out there if you are willing to bring along your own. But you still have to do a lot of searching for needles in haystacks. Good luck!

[LuvMyTB]

@streamline

My fancy TB who doesn’t look like a TB and jumps with his knees to his nose, but he’s a total pyscho. I got him for a few hundred bucks, last year he went straight up and over on me. This was in front of my husband, like the 2nd time we all went riding together and I was like “here’s my super great awesome horse” I just remember the look of shock on his face, and on his horses face as we were straight up in the air. By the time I was back on my feet my horse has galloped from the bottom of the 30 acres to the top. This horse has a super duper clean vetting, clean x rays etc etc. So I’ve been in the boat of having not so fun horses to ride

I feel like you just never know what you’re going to get off the track, they can seem fine but aren’t and vice versa. I bought another that has the best brain ever, but not a drop of athleticism in him and he’s off and on sound. I can totally see skipping over some TBs unless they have a true proven record.

There’s a big farm a state over, that breeds some AQHA/appendix’s and they are all jumping around AA 1.20 courses. They have a big colt starting operation as well.

@streamline would you mind sharing the name/location of that farm?

[dani0303]

It’s disheartening for the budgeted amateur to see American bred TWO year olds on the market for 25-35k. I really have NO chance of ever getting a 1.20-1.30 horse.

[Xctrygirl]

@dani0303

It’s disheartening for the budgeted amateur to see American bred TWO year olds on the market for 25-35k. I really have NO chance of ever getting a 1.20-1.30 horse.

Sure you do. 1 See my post above. 2) Think outside all the boxes. There are many ways to get there.

Em

[MustangTwist]

@Xctrygirl

Here you go kids, basic Horse Buying Economics 101.

Find a horse not surrounded by dealers.
Find a horse not competed by pros or riders overly dissimilar from you.
Find a horse with a record that you can see and with multiple videos.
Find horse that has a seller who wants a good home, for a fair price
(IF you can) Find connections near horse (Doesn’t matter what country/State/etc… Horse people are generally well connected and WANT to help people buy a horse. Enabling is ridiculous!) And have someone ride and video horse for you.
Vet the horse.
(If you need to) Ride the horse at some point also. Not everyone needs this.

Spend less and get more.

I’ve said this a lot but this horse was really only $13k USD. (Plus shipping which was under $8k) He had a solid vetting and is one of the cleanest jumpers ever. Not to mention a great brain and all sorts of cute.

He’ll (hopefully) do the 1.30 with me this year. We went up through 1.25m last year.

I promise you I looked and couldn’t find a horse in most of the Eastern/Middle USA that was ready to go 1.25 with a solid vetting, good brain and amazing jump for $21k. I could find many missing one part of that. But Cudo was the total package and I didn’t spend a fortune to get him.

I still look at the English and Irish Fb groups often and saw a 9 yr old the other day for slightly more that would fit the mold of horses I am drawn to. They’re out there and in Europe it’s not as expensive to get the showing education on them. So the savings are there versus what it costs the American peers to get the same education on the horses.

Em

Emily - I know we’ve talked on this subject before, and always value your insight. Although I won’t be ready to buy for a few months, I’ve been keeping an eye on those FB groups and have been checking Horsequest almost weekly. It looks promising. I haven’t been able to find many good FB groups for Irish horses though, do you have any recommendations? The ones I’ve joined so far seem to be advertising more backyard-type horses vs. legitimate upper level prospects. However, I do wonder if Brexit will complicate import of English horses in the future.

I’m also super interested in the Monart sale in Ireland that happens in November. Looks like there have some nice horses there that go for decent prices (less than Goresbridge Go for the Gold). Not sure how much extra import from Ireland would be vs. elsewhere in Europe, though.

[LSceats]

@dani0303

It’s disheartening for the budgeted amateur to see American bred TWO year olds on the market for 25-35k. I really have NO chance of ever getting a 1.20-1.30 horse.

I paid 35k for the horse below as a 4yo with 30 days and this year he jumped the 1.40s in the ribbons at thermal and won 1.35m classic. Got him in Omaha from the Cudmores. These horses exist but take a lot of work and a great training program to get them there. It is not a quick or linear road but has been super rewarding.

free jump
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xmBrpHnHcqg

this year
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ep8pbylkHxQ”‹”‹”‹”‹”‹”‹

[MustangTwist]

@LSceats

I paid 35k for the horse below as a 4yo with 30 days and this year he jumped the 1.40s in the ribbons at thermal and won 1.35m classic. Got him in Omaha from the Cudmores. These horses exist but take a lot of work and a great training program to get them there. It is not a quick or linear road but has been super rewarding.

free jump
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xmBrpHnHcqg

this year
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ep8pbylkHxQ”‹”‹”‹”‹”‹”‹

He looks fantastic! You’ve clearly done a great job with him.

However, the average “budgeted amateur” @dani0303 is referring to likely isn’t in a position to spend $35k on a 4 year old.