Horse sent to Mill Creek farm Retirement not doing well!

[JackieBlue]

[QUOTE=Manahmanah;7219598]
If this was a horse I cared about as much as the OP seems to it would be escorted under the cover of darkness to my waiting horse trailer. I would be willing to gamble on a sympathetic judge or at least a lengthy process to determine actual ownership… At the end of which if did not go my way would be PTS instead of departing again. I know not all are willing to take such a risk though. I also seriously doubt a couple of 80 year olds are going to spend a ton on lawyers chasing after such an old and expensive horse.[/QUOTE]

Aside from the messy getting arrested thing, the OP used the term “remanded” when referring to the horse’s arrival at MC. That would mean that a court determined ownership in MC’s favor, so there wouldn’t be any hang ups in proving ownership whatsoever. According to the law of the land, the horse belongs to MC.

[Lynnwood]

[QUOTE=JackieBlue;7219623]
Perhaps their both fed from buckets and Max approaches first, claims his bucket, and then the mare steps to her bucket and is fed. This is how it is often done with 2 horse who get along well in a pasture setting such as this. One expects, and is given, first dibs, so you empty that one’s feed first.
Have you asked if you can visit during feeding time?[/QUOTE]

Since it was discovered that the horse is in poor condition neither of the Gregory’s will communicate with me at all. No emails no phone calls I got one curt the horse is fine /hang up the first time I called.

[Lynnwood]

[QUOTE=JackieBlue;7219636]
Aside from the messy getting arrested thing, the OP used the term “remanded” when referring to the horse’s arrival at MC. That would mean that a court determined ownership in MC’s favor, so there wouldn’t be any hang ups in proving ownership whatsoever. According to the law of the land, the horse belongs to MC.[/QUOTE]

Remanded by the barn owner where he was left with unpaid board. She signed him over to them. So yes legally he is their horse.

[JackieBlue]

[QUOTE=Lynnwood;7219642]
Remanded by the barn owner where he was left with unpaid board. She signed him over to them.[/QUOTE]

Oh. Remanded is a legal term, meaning to commit or send back. As far as I know, it’s always used in legal context, hence my misunderstanding.

[Lynnwood]

[QUOTE=JackieBlue;7219649]
Oh. Remanded is a legal term, meaning to commit or send back. As far as I know, it’s always used in legal context, hence my misunderstanding.[/QUOTE]

Sorry about that Jackie The BO “Sent, gave , transferred” Max to Mill Creek at the end of July.

I was first contacted and made aware of any of the situation in mid August. He’d already been there two weeks.

Had I been contacted prior I would have taken him back without reservation.

[ReSomething]

Well, Nora may be a graduate of the Black Beauty school of horse care, where lurv and carrots solve all, but now she’s on the defensive regarding the MC program.

And she and the other volunteers will probably circle the wagons to defend MC’s program rather than accept that some horses need modifications - such as not letting the other horse get quadruple rations by putting Max in his own paddock next to her so his intake can be monitored. (Geez louise, any time humans are losing weight and hospitalized their food intake is monitored and if necessary they get an IV line or a naso gastric tube and receive alimentation THAT way - I am a little worried about a vet that doesn’t get that communal feeding isn’t a good thing for the underweight)

[Frizzle]

Have they not discovered feed bags? That’s how the pasture-kept horses were fed @ the farm where I field-boarded. That way, everyone gets their own grain.

Then again, if Max’s MO is to pick @ his feed all day, that might not be the best option.

[Manahmanah]

[QUOTE=LauraKY;7219604]
If I had to bet on it, I would say you are dead wrong. Whoever attempted such a thing would be arrested and prosecuted.[/QUOTE]

This is my horse. I am taking it home. Here are the pictures of me owning it going back 20 years. Prove otherwise.

People are stealing horses and butchering them in Florida for meat. It happens frequently and good luck getting actual police to give a crap. Unless you are caught red handed in the act (unlikely) then you would be arrested for what… Petty theft? The horse has zero value besides emotional value.

[ReSomething]

Got to the party a little late and missed a few posts, but I’d like to point out that if Max wanders off of his uneaten food it’s highly unlikely the other horse will politely leave his bucket alone. OP has stated that Max was a slow eater.

[LauraKY]

[QUOTE=Manahmanah;7219693]
This is my horse. I am taking it home. Here are the pictures of me owning it going back 20 years. Prove otherwise.

People are stealing horses and butchering them in Florida for meat. It happens frequently and good luck getting actual police to give a crap. Unless you are caught red handed in the act (unlikely) then you would be arrested for what… Petty theft? The horse has zero value besides emotional value.[/QUOTE]

Just let it go, no one is advocating stealing the horse except you.

[Lynnwood]

[QUOTE=ReSomething;7219696]
Got to the party a little late and missed a few posts, but I’d like to point out that if Max wanders off of his uneaten food it’s highly unlikely the other horse will politely leave his bucket alone. OP has stated that Max was a slow eater.[/QUOTE]

He is such a slow eater that he had to be fed from a hanging bucket if fed outdoors because the neighbors ducks would commandeer his food. He would happily hang back while they sat in his bucket and gobbled his meals.

And the dogs , and the seasonal migratory birds.

I will never believe he has suddenly become a voracious eater. Nor do I understand why a vet would recommend a horse be given 10lbs of feed twice a day …vs smaller meals more often. Especially when it lives with another horse loose in a field.

[JackieBlue]

I’ve known both dogs and horses who would linger over their food or ignore it in private, but became voracious eaters in the proximity of others. What this horse used to do, more than a year ago when fed at his leisure in a stall, and what he does now are not necessarily one and the same. Again, some facts based on actual observation would be awfully nice.
If he really isn’t eating all his food, well then that can be addressed any number of ways. If he is, but he continues to lose weight, than there’s probably some underlying disease process or the ravages of old age to blame and perhaps he’s at the end of his journey. Just a few facts would shed so much light on Max’s situation.

[CVPeg]

Wonder if “Nora” is the aforementioned Nora Denslow.

Nora Cooper Denslow - Lives in Miami, Florida and has worked as a location manger in the film industry for the past 20 years. She has volunteered for numerous environmental and animal organizations throughout her life and continues her commitment to the welfare of animals.

http://www.millcreekfarm.org/board.htm

[Lynnwood]

[QUOTE=JackieBlue;7219717]
I’ve known both dogs and horses who would linger over their food or ignore it in private, but became voracious eaters in the proximity of others. What this horse used to do, more than a year ago when fed at his leisure in a stall, and what he does now are not necessarily one and the same. Again, some facts based on actual observation would be awfully nice.
If he really isn’t eating all his food, well then that can be addressed any number of ways. If he is, but he continues to lose weight, than there’s probably some underlying disease process or the ravages of old age to blame and perhaps he’s at the end of his journey. Just a few facts would shed so much light on Max’s situation.[/QUOTE]

That isn’t going to happen. Again they only allow visitors from 11 to 3 one day a week.

You are right Jackie maybe he’s done a complete 180 and a formerly slow eater weather in the company of none or others has suddenly become a voracious eater but I have 22 years of history with the horse in may different circumstances saying otherwise.

By the way when I relayed that I was told the horse was gobbling his food to the BO that sent him there . Her reply was “bullshit”

[Lynnwood]

Jackie et all,

We can argue the semantics of this till we are blue All I can provide you with is the horses complete history from the last 22 years , my desire to see him thrive and my concerns that his tendency to be a high maintenance horse are not suitable to where he is located .

His condition seems to agree with me in that regard.

If when I’d called and emailed had I gotten a “Yes we are concerned and looking into it” vs he’s fine and not lost any weight. This thread would not be in existence.

I stand by I should not have had to call the rural deputy to get the horses condition re assessed.

[LauraKY]

[QUOTE=Manahmanah;7219693]
This is my horse. I am taking it home. Here are the pictures of me owning it going back 20 years. Prove otherwise.

People are stealing horses and butchering them in Florida for meat. It happens frequently and good luck getting actual police to give a crap. Unless you are caught red handed in the act (unlikely) then you would be arrested for what… Petty theft? The horse has zero value besides emotional value.[/QUOTE]

The more I think about this the angrier I get. You realize this is a public forum, and that most likely the supporters of Mill Creek are monitoring this thread, right?

Yet you make absurd and illegal suggestions that no one will act on. All you’ve done is to begin to paint those who care about Max as a bunch of crazy nutjob zealots like the people who release animals from research institutions.

[LauraKY]

What’s your deal anyway Jackie Blue? Isn’t there an old “woe is me” thread where your family wasn’t taking care of your horse adequately because they knew better?

Yet, you are so quick to be judgmental in this case. I find your attitude to be very hypocritical.

[Lynnwood]

[QUOTE=LauraKY;7219748]
The more I think about this the angrier I get. You realize this is a public forum, and that most like the supporters of Mill Creek are monitory this thread, right?

Yet you make absurd and illegal suggestions that no one will act on. All you’ve done is to begin to paint those who care about Max as a bunch of crazy nutjob zealots like the people who release animals from research institutions.[/QUOTE]

Don’t worry nobody is going to act on those suggestions.

I’m not even willing to attempt to take the BO to court to try to prove she did not act appropriately when she assumed ownership of Max because of return at any time clause.

She did what she believed to be the best for the horse…it just at this point hasn’t worked out.

[Manahmanah]

[QUOTE=LauraKY;7219748]
The more I think about this the angrier I get. You realize this is a public forum, and that most likely the supporters of Mill Creek are monitoring this thread, right?

Yet you make absurd and illegal suggestions that no one will act on. All you’ve done is to begin to paint those who care about Max as a bunch of crazy nutjob zealots like the people who release animals from research institutions.[/QUOTE]

You are a nasty piece of work aren’t you. Did someone piss in your cheerios this morning?

I was not advising the OP on what to do. I was stating what I would do if it were ME in this situation. Huge difference. There is no need for the tone of either of your posts.

[Lynnwood]

My only wish is that the owners of Mill Creek would have listened to the horses past and taken that into account when dealing with his future.

Its the untrue statements and sweeping generalizations that can be dis proven if they would be willing to listen that have caused this horse to deteriorate in condition.

He didn’t arrive in poor condition for a hard keeping almost 32 year old with long standing management idiosyncrasies. His coat was not poor , he did not have cellulitis when he stepped off the trailer. He was not ever keep “shuttered up for hours at a time” . He was kept stalled when appropriate for his management and pastured at minimum each night.

His vices of weaving and pacing ONLY ever emerged when he was stressed or unhappy. So if he exhibited them at Mill Creek connecting A to B is not a tremendous leap.

MC and the vet attempting to imply the horse was improperly cared for or managed without even been willing to learn more about his history is BS plain and simple.