I’m an adult amateur and I’m currently shopping for my first horse. I’m trying to do this mostly without a trainer’s help. Yes, I ask for my trainer to review videos and let me know what she thinks. I ask other people for opinions as well. Would it be better to formally hire a trainer to help me find a horse? I’m not looking for anything super fancy, under fifteen thousand, safe and sane. I’m planning to have the horse I buy fully vetted. I find that most people just don’t understand what I’m looking for in a horse. They tend to think I should buy the kind of horse that they themselves would want to buy. I guess I’m asking…as an adult amateur and newbie to the horse shopping business, should I put more weight into other people’s opinions? Should I hire my trainer formally to find me a horse, make calls, grill sellers etc and then pay her a %10 commission? Have other people horse shopped on their own and found perfectly safe and reasonable riding companions? should I only buy a horse from a seller that is capable of making a fully professional video demonstrating everything the horse is capable of? Is it okay to look at a horse who’s current owners are also beginners and don’t know how to advertise?
[QUOTE=Hayforhorses87;8808406]
I’m an adult amateur and I’m currently shopping for my first horse. I’m trying to do this mostly without a trainer’s help. Yes, I ask for my trainer to review videos and let me know what she thinks. I ask other people for opinions as well. Would it be better to formally hire a trainer to help me find a horse? I’m not looking for anything super fancy, under fifteen thousand, safe and sane. I’m planning to have the horse I buy fully vetted. I find that most people just don’t understand what I’m looking for in a horse. They tend to think I should buy the kind of horse that they themselves would want to buy. I guess I’m asking…as an adult amateur and newbie to the horse shopping business, should I put more weight into other people’s opinions? Should I hire my trainer formally to find me a horse, make calls, grill sellers etc and then pay her a %10 commission? Have other people horse shopped on their own and found perfectly safe and reasonable riding companions? should I only buy a horse from a seller that is capable of making a fully professional video demonstrating everything the horse is capable of? Is it okay to look at a horse who’s current owners are also beginners and don’t know how to advertise?[/QUOTE]
I guess the answers would depend on your level of experience in the horse world. Are you an amateur who has ridden a lot and ridden a lot of other people’s horses such that you are confident and have dealt with a lot of antics and this is just the first horse you have owned? Or are you more of a beginner who has only ridden school horses and so this is really your first independent foray into the horse world?
Do you have a trainer whom you regularly ride with?
What traits does your first horse need to have that most people won’t understand? 
If this is your first circus, you most definitely need help. A trainer (or at least an amateur who has been around the block and who has ridden a lot of horses) will be able to get on a horse and feel things that you may not. Those things could range from a mild lameness to any naughty behavior that threatens to come up if the horse is pushed a little past its comfort zone. It could also be something as subtle as a look in its eye or its demeanor when being handled. What a seller might call “quiet” an experienced person might call “shut down and tuned out” so that the horse is nappy and not interested in work. What the seller might call “doesn’t like to take the right lead” and experienced person might say “feels a bit wonky on the left hind.”
There’s also reading ads with an experienced eye, looking at ads and understanding conformation and movement, knowing how to sleuth and look up show records, talking to others in the area to see what they know about a horse. A trainer will know other people in the industry and may know of horses that aren’t actively being marketed but might be for sale because Sally is off to college soon or Mom had to quit riding because of illness or something like that.
If this is your first horse, you most definitely need help. The number of people who succeed with their first horse purchase without help is much smaller than the number of people who get a good match by working with a trusted professional.
Yes, get help. 10% commission is small really, and to get the right horse, the 1st time, is worth every penny. A more experienced eye (unbiased) to come along is crucial for a first time amateur horse buyer.
Be upfront with your trainer about needs and budget; make all your concerns very, very, clear. At the end of the day, the decision on a horse is yours, but it is worth it to have a voice of reason come along.
As an amateur, buying the brain and suitability is so much more important than almost any factor IMO. Having a GOOD trainer guide you through the process is well worth the investment, but it has to be someone who knows your skills, goals, strengths, weaknesses etc. well. Hiring someone simply to help you buy a horse may not be the right move.
In terms of sellers…flashy videos are nice but they don’t impress me much. All I want to see is walk, trot, canter in both directions and any work specific to the level the horse is being advertised at (ie lateral work, changes, etc).
My friend specializes in buying / training / selling horses geared specifically to the ammie and her main concern is always to match the rider with a horse they can ride and enjoy safely themselves, not one that reques a ton of pro rides and prep. Many of her horses are crossbred, often with some Clyde blood, which gives them super brains, yet some potential buyers are turned off by this. They want only a big warmblood breed and movement, even if it’s not suitable for their level of riding.
So my advice would be (a) develop a relationship with a good trainer you trust and then start horse shopping. (B) Be realistic about your skills and goals and open minded about breed, colour, size, etc.
I feel quite confident about my skills in sizing up horses, and I’m not currently shopping. But if I were, I absolutely would have my coach/trainer closely involved in the process. Now, of course, I have a very good relationship with my coach. She knows my riding, she knows my current horse, she is very trustworthy, and she is a demon bargain-hunter! And she has an excellent eye for a horse, for subtle lameness, and we like the same kinds of horses. Plus, whatever I bought, she would be responsible for picking up the pieces, so she should have some input into the choice. I’d want her to also love my new horse.
However, if I didn’t have this long, established, relationship with a coach, it might be different.
Even so, I expect that I would do most of the legwork myself. I would be looking at websites, sending her videos and links, etc.
That said, I think there are built-in conundrums when it comes to shopping for an ammie horse.
We all want good mind, good attitude, totally sound, solid conformation, as much training as possible, under a certain age, under a certain price, and if possible, pretty with nice gaits and good breeding. Depending on where you see your riding going, big gaits might in fact be more important, since they impact your dressage scores even at training and first level.
The horse with the entire package is very, very rare at any price, and certainly at any price that makes sense for an ammie’s first horse.
You can get well-trained school-master horses, but you might find they are a bit older than you want, and maybe not 100 % sound. Would you take a well-bred, handsome, highly-trained sweetheart of a horse if he was 16 and needed annual hock injections?
On the other hand, you can get well-bred, nicely-built horses that are 100 % sound, for a good price, if you are willing to buy greenbroke, particularly if you are willing to buy greenish horses that have “fallen through the cracks,” the 7 and 8 year olds that were started and then tossed out on pasture for 3 years because their owners had life crises (just be really clear the horse wasn’t tossed out to heal up from an injury). There are a lot of these around, but you would want to know that you and your coach had the ability to put the necessary training on the horse, without developing bad habits or big training holes along the way. And these typically do not have very polished advertising, to say the least!
Another source of good-minded horses, if you have the resources to do some retraining, is western horses, particularly ranch horses that have been well-started and had some exposure to different environments.
One last thing about having coaches involved. There have been threads on COTH about coaches finding horses for clients that were at the top of the client’s price range, and the client finds out later on that the horse was originally offered for sale for substantially less. If the coach is getting a % as commission, then there is a built in incentive to find you a more expensive horse, rather than a bargain.
And if you are shopping for a horse under, let’s say, $5,000, how much work is it worth the coach putting in for the 10 % commission? If you had a great relationship with the coach and it was in the coach’s interest that you get a fantastic horse at a bargain and continue on to success with the coach, yes, they’d probably go all out to find you that perfect horse. But if it was more of a business relationship, they might not be working that hard for you for a $400 fee.
Finally, I heard of one case where client was horse shopping. Client found horse on her own. Coach insisted on a finder’s fee for the horse even though she was not part of the finding. (Client and coach have since parted ways) You might want an actual contract if you get a coach looking for you.
You could also pay the coach on a one by one basis, each time you ask her to come see a horse.
OP, my advice would be to do a lot of the work yourself, i.e. looking at ads, reviewing video, and perhaps even trying the horses. Use your coach/instructor when you are ready to take your long list and trim it to a short list of horses from which to choose.
That way you are fully involved, protecting your own interests (mostly your wallet) and will know exactly what the horse costs (no kick-backs). Someone else on the forum once said that people who turn their wallet over to someone else usually end up with an empty wallet.
I would highly recommend developing an approach that YOU feel comfortable with and then talk with your trainer about a commission structure before you get started. Some will want a percentage (10-15%) no matter how much work is done or who does that work. Others are happy to be paid an hourly fee for any reviews or visits they make. Everyone does it differently. Work something out in advance, get it in writing, and then proceed.
I’ve personally seen two adult amateurs end up in bad situations with an inappropriate horse because the trainer bought them something that was too much horse, and therefore required full training ($$$ for trainer), and the amateurs ended up getting seriously hurt. Not that all trainers are like this, but it’s something to keep in mind.
What are your goals?
Are you looking for a horse to take you up the levels?
Are you looking for a horse just to learn on and then sell as you get more experience?
Are you looking for a horse to just enjoy without going to shows?
Is there a place you can lease a horse? Get used to the responsibility of ownership without buying a horse outright?
Also check your local dressage combined training organisation if you have one. There are usually members who know where there are good horses to be had.
A trainer / instructor can be a good person to have with you to help you negotiate especially if this is your first foray into buying a horse.
Good luck in your search.
I would absolutely say lease first, before you own. I should have done that, I didn’t, and while I am tremendously fond of my mare now, she was not a good choice as a first horse.
Never go to look at a horse by yourself. Always bring a trainer or at least a friend with a good eye who can see the subtle lamenesses or training issues that you may not be aware of. I know far too many people who bought the wrong horse because they fell in love with it and ended up with something where they didn’t see the flaws until they brought it home.
Make a list of what you want in a horse and review it with your trainer. Ask her/him if what you are looking for TODAY is what you are going to want to be riding a year from now. You may be at a time in your riding when leasing would be a better idea than buying. I had my first horse for about three years when my trainer told me I either had to change my goals or get a new horse because while he’d been a great horse for me when I’d bought him (coming back to riding after 9 years), he didn’t have the scope to do what I wanted to do now. I ended up leasing him then selling him to someone for whom he was better suited but it was a hard decision.
Typically, when I’ve been horse shopping, I do the groundwork myself, bring a friend to watch the first ride and then involve my trainer. I also mostly buy horses from people I know, or from people who’ve been recommended by people I know. In fact, both of my current horses were picked out by a good friend of mine with a great eye who knows what I like :). Honestly not sure I would have chosen either of them, but I love them both now. But I’d be careful about whom you ask for advice. Not everyone can evaluate a horse and know whether it’s a good match for you. I have a few key people I trust and a few where I nod my head and ignore them.
Often when I’ve worked with a pro, I’ve negotiated up front either a percentage or a per/horse fee to evaluate. In those cases, I’ve paid the trainer a day rate for coming to see the horse. It’s just important to be clear up front about expectations.
If I had a working relationship with a trainer, and intended to continue on with that trainer with my new horse, I’d absolutely have them help me with the final decision on the horse. If it involves significant time, I’d try to negotiate a flat fee. A percent commission makes sense for a seller, but seems strange to me as a buyer, basically incentivizing the agent to recommend more $$$ horses.
I’m an amateur, and only work sporadically with trainers, so when I bought my 2 year old last year, I was on my own for a road trip to look at prospects. However, decent video was a plus, as a few local trainers and a friend with a good eye were willing to look at the videos for me and pick apart things I may have been overlooking and offer insight on the bloodlines.
If I’d been purchasing a trained horse, I probably would have paid someone to come with me to look at the finalist before writing a check or doing all the PPE xrays.
Thank you everyone for all of your feedback. To answer a few of your questions, I’ve already been horse shopping for several months and I have a strong idea of what I’m looking for. I’ve tried at least 12 different horses, 2 of whom I really liked and had vetted - they didn’t pass the vet exam despite having trainers come out to meet the horse, review the videos, etc. I leased horses before deciding to buy and I know what is involved in owning a horse. However, I’m relatively new in the area and I’m finding it difficult to trust any of the dressage trainers.
Unless you have the money to spend I would just look yourself. Make a list of the things the horse must have (a good brain and non-spooky should be at the top of that list. I know sometimes it seems like we can just ‘work through’ it but as a fellow AA you really need to know you can depend on that horse). Only look at horses that seem to fit your needs. Ask a lot of questions (make a list of questions to ask too) and go and test the horses you like. I find it important to test the horse for quiet, non-spooky behavior by doing some stress tests (opening umbrellas, trail riding it, brushing it with a broom<this one never fails to scare the crap out of spooky horses, while calm ones just look at you like you are insane) NEVER get on a horse that hasn’t been ridden by someone else first, that is how you get thrown by misrepresented horses.
Trust your gut. When I bought my first horse I had no trainer and no idea what I was doing. I ended up with the horse of a lifetime but only because I trusted my gut.
I would definitely want a trainer’s opinion, but it also depends on the trainer.
There are some very strong benefits of having a trainer involved:
- If you train with someone well know you are less likely to get truly screwed by one of their colleagues. Take this seriously.
- Trainers typically know who to stay away from or who just isn’t a match for your riding style. For example, I am a total chicken, so I should not be trying out Jazz offspring!
- The trainer knows what you should look for to match your goals.trainer should know bloodlines and general personalities that trend with different breeds.
- You will have a better training relationship if your trainer likes the horse.
Big thing to be aware of: some trainers will have you purchase a horse that guarantees full training (i.e. Way too much horse for the average AA). If that’s not what you want, make sure you are super clear about it up front. Look around at the horses in your barn that the trainer has picked and see if they are good matches for their owners.
10% is nothing when you start talking about horses and money, so that’s the least of the issues.
There’s so much that you can do using video, now, if you have a smart phone and the kind of relationship with a friend or trainer to whom you can send some short clips for review.
I found my horse on a buying trip out of town and went alone because my partner didn’t want to go to a cold climate in Nov and my trainer had a newborn infant.
I sent my trainer many short clips of me trying four different horses on that buying trip. Walk, trot, canter, transitions, and conformation shots. I’m pretty low level and they were fairly young but well started so that was enough in my case.
The sellers were all happy to comply with my request to video me a little bit, using my own phone. I was freezing in Chicago and she was teaching lessons while nursing a baby back in AZ. And we communicated throughout the entire 2.5 days I was there via text, and texted video clips.
I know OP you said you don’t really have a trainer you’re working with in your new place but the great thing about video is you can send it anywhere, including to whomever you have been working with in the past. Or, you can ask someone professional and knowledgeable if they have time to look at your buying trips for a nominal fee.
It’s an option to consider.
[QUOTE=Hayforhorses87;8808406]
I find that most people just don’t understand what I’m looking for in a horse. They tend to think I should buy the kind of horse that they themselves would want to buy.[/QUOTE]
And what is that you are looking for in a horse?
Make a list of “things” you want and see what others think about it.
What is good for others is often good for us too. If what you are looking is so different than what most people want, maybe you’ll want to rethink your priorities.
as an adult amateur and newbie to the horse shopping business, should I put more weight into other people’s opinions?
Yes.
You are an amateur.
You are newbie horse shopper.
This will be your first horse.
Keep an open mind.
Why do you think people are suggesting you different type of horses than what you seem to be looking for?
Should I hire my trainer formally to find me a horse, make calls, grill sellers etc and then pay her a %10 commission?
Not necessarily. The way you are doing right now sounds good as long as you listen to you trainer’s opinion.
You could hire your trainer for a trial day when you think you have found “the one”. Get a lesson on the horse and/or have your trainer ride.
Have other people horse shopped on their own and found perfectly safe and reasonable riding companions? should I only buy a horse from a seller that is capable of making a fully professional video demonstrating everything the horse is capable of? Is it okay to look at a horse who’s current owners are also beginners and don’t know how to advertise?
Just be really REALLY carefull on which horse you get on.
I almost got my arm/neck ripped apart from a horse who attacked me while I tried some in-hand work. The horse was doing great until he wasn’t… Seller (some sort of a BNT) hadn’t warned me about his vice…
Always have the owner/seller working with the horse first. Don’t do anything the seller isn’t able to do/doesn’t do.
One more thing. If you have the horse vetted by someone other than “your” vet, always have the vet who knows YOU review video and films. It’s worth any extra fees.
[QUOTE=exploding pony;8809404]
I would definitely want a trainer’s opinion, but it also depends on the trainer…Look around at the horses in your barn that the trainer has picked and see if they are good matches for their owners.[/QUOTE]
This is very good advice. I purchased my first horse just a few years ago after many years of leasing. While I used current and former trainers to help me sort through some possibilities (and to get to the word out on what I was looking for), I ultimately trusted my own read on whether a candidate was a horse that I could ride/train on my own, day after day + enjoy doing so! After all, I’m the one paying for the horse and for their care. If you don’t have enough experience to have perspective on this, you will need more input.
I had a similar budget to you (~20k) but ended up spending far less by being open minded about location and breed. Everyone who meets my mare thinks we are the perfect match—and I agree! Be patient, learn what you need to learn, and keep “expert” help in perspective (make sure their interests actually serve your interests).
p.s. I bought my mare from another adult amateur. I think that offered me some reassurance that she was very sane and cooperative, as her prior owner had similar expectations to me. A lot of other potential candidates were in full training to be sold and it was harder for me to sort out whether it was truly an “amateur” horse or not. When I talked with owners/sellers on the phone and they indicated that their trainer would show the horse, but they would not, that was a clue to me that this might be more horse (requires full training or a pro) than I was looking for. If amateur owners were not willing to hack the horse, that was another clue. Not in all cases, but certainly in some.
[QUOTE=SnicklefritzG;8808974]
OP, my advice would be to do a lot of the work yourself, i.e. looking at ads, reviewing video, and perhaps even trying the horses. Use your coach/instructor when you are ready to take your long list and trim it to a short list of horses from which to choose.
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I would highly recommend developing an approach that YOU feel comfortable with and then talk with your trainer about a commission structure before you get started. …Everyone does it differently. Work something out in advance, get it in writing, and then proceed.
…[/QUOTE]
Excellent advice above. Follow it 
It sounds like you feel fairly confident about being able to get on a new horse and ride enough to feel like you know what you are getting. It also sounds like you are willing to take some time and see many horses before making a decision. If both of these are true, then you are probably best off doing the initial legwork yourself, and then just asking your trainer to “double check” before you make a final decision. I do DEFINITELTY think that getting your own trainer’s input before you buy is important, and worth investing some money in if you are spending thousands for the horse. Of course, this also depends somewhat on your trainer’s policy.
My trainer has always been willing to work on a piece-meal basis where I pay her for what she does, not a commission. I currently own 3 horses, and I have bought 4 horses in the past 6 years, so I have done this more that most amateurs. This is what has worked for me. My trainer charges $25 per horse to review video, and $50 per hour (including travel time) to go see a horse with me. I have generally done all the phone calling , and made an initial visit to ride the horse on my own. If it is going to be a long trip (I have flown to see some), or if I have particular questions, then would have my trainer watch video first and give advice. I ALWAYS make sure that I have someone take video of me on the horse when I try it (the selling owner/trainer has always been willing to do this for me. I bring my own camera). If I think the horse is a good possibility, then I will at least have my trainer watch video of me riding and of the seller riding. It has not always been possible to get the trainer to see the horse in person (long travel, scheduling problems, etc). But if it is possible, then I do think it is worthwhile to make a second (or third) trip out and get your trainer to ride the horse and to give you a mini-lesson on the horse. You should get all input from your trainer before scheduling a vet check.
And definitely do not overlook the importance of work-of-mouth and of asking your trainer to keep his/her eyes open. Many of the best horses sell by word of mouth before an ad ever goes on the internet. Your trainer might hear of something. My trainer has always passed this kind of info on to me for free and let me explore it without charging any commission – but that may differ by trainer.
I can’t believe you can’t find a “not fancy” “safe and sound” AA starter horse for a budget of $15K. What level horses are you looking at? Do you want a horse you can learn and progress with or more of a schoolmaster? Of course, I’m in Fla and there are a lot of horses here.
