Horse (Supposedly) Really Bad With Needles

[Displaced_Yankee]

My own horse is not great about needles. Unfortunately, I bred him and have been his owner since birth. He’s just always been like that. He is also difficult about mane pulling and is VERY sensitive on stuff “touching” him. Like one time his dressage braid came unbuttoned and the braid was lightly scratching his neck. He threw himself at the walls trying to rub it out. I had to walk him and undo the braid as we walked. Or he overreacts to flies on his body. I think the skin/needle/mane pulling issues are all related.

Anyways, after watching one vet try to muscle him into submission I said screw it: let’s just twitch him every time. He gets cookies, we slip the twitch on, we wait until his eyes sort of glaze over with endorphins, stick him, undo the twitch, more cookies. He is actually MUCH better and I can give him IM shots on my own as a non-issue. However, knowing how he has been in the past I will never let my vets give him a shot without a twitch. I do not want them at risk and it’s my duty to make sure they are safe around my horse. It’s a non-event and twitching him is not a dramatic thing for him.

But again, it has gotten better!

[Ghazzu]

I’m with the clicker-training folks.
I’ve had more success with that approach than any other.

[poltroon]

My pony is like this. She is extremely reactive and she is reactive to the feeling of the needle. Hiding it from her is part of the solution but it is not sufficient.

We dose her with dormosedan before the vet arrives on the property. She is still reactive but if we hide the needle we can get it done safely. I always have some on hand, per the vet’s advice.

Clicker training is a good strategy. You can use it with a syringe only.

I’d also consider a topical anesthetic where the needle will go in, could help.

[clint]

I had a mare who had some bad experiences with needles as a foal and became a nightmare with needles as she grew. I used operant conditioning, as outlined in this article, and it worked. She finally learned to relax and by the time I sold her, the phobia had completely disappeared. Initially however, she was dangerous.

https://www.vet.upenn.edu/docs/default-source/research/equine-behavior-laboratory/how-to-injection-shyness.pdf?sfvrsn=fa27e0ba_0

[GreyHntr]

@clint

I had a mare who had some bad experiences with needles as a foal and became a nightmare with needles as she grew. I used operant conditioning, as outlined in this article, and it worked. She finally learned to relax and by the time I sold her, the phobia had completely disappeared. Initially however, she was dangerous.

https://www.vet.upenn.edu/docs/default-source/research/equine-behavior-laboratory/how-to-injection-shyness.pdf?sfvrsn=fa27e0ba_0

Can’t wait to put my (in process) bachelor in psychology to work! haha. I am very familiar with this stuff, thanks for the article too! You are all giving me hope for my girl with these stories… Thank you!

[Mango20]

All of my horses have been friendly and generally well-mannered. Most have been good with shots. I had a pony who was very sensitive to them. He wouldn’t strike or kick, but once tensed up so badly after the needle went in that he bent the needle! Since he wasn’t dangerous and didn’t need too many injections, I just dealt with it. It usually worked best when I’d do him first, so he didn’t get the chance to see that other horses were getting shots. My current horses range between having no reaction or maybe a flinch. One of my current ones is horrible for paste wormers or anything else you might want to stick in her mouth. It’s a two person job, and even then there’s no guarantee of success. For her, I made a homemade version of that “easy wormer” bit-like thing they sell. I just attached a straw to an old bit and bridle, and make sure to give enough extra to account for what gets left in the straw. She’s 25 now, and has gotten worse over the 23 years I’ve owned her.

For yours, I think it’s worth a shot to try to desensitize. Be prepared to need the twitch or dorm or both when the time comes, and make sure you warn your vet!

[Bluey]

We had such horses here and there and they got over it easily with some extra training.

Then there was this one big jumper in a barn I was helping.
We were always warned, puppy dog gentle and easygoing, unless a vet and/or shots were involved, then he lost his marbles.

I got to see that when one day the vet was here, giving shots.
They put him in the stocks, the vet came around and prepared to give him his vaccines and horse reared high up, fought like a demon and flipped in the stocks!
Don’t know how he didn’t kill himself and no one had even reached for him yet, just on the anticipation of needling.

I think you had to tranquilize him in his food to almost knock him off his feet and then give him his shots and get out of the way quickly.

What works well for us if a horse is touchy is to scratch the horse hard regularly close to where the shot goes.
Then have someone scratching there and give the shot at the same time with the scratching.
​​​​​​​The horses generally don’t really can tell vigorous scratching from a shot, if you do it nicely.

[luvmyhackney]

Just follow ZuZu’s advice and use blinkers. Works great. Use clicker training for more long term solution.

[SuzieQNutter]

Sum is very suspicious of any one rhat comes here. He is also suspicious if you try to give him an apple. Soneone must have put something in it first.

He bent one needle 90 degrees with toss of his head.

But he has confidence in me and he LOVES his pellets so I stuck his nose in a tub of pellets a few times and now he doesn’t care.

[candyappy]

@GreyHntr

@Sswor Noted. Thank you. Figured it was worth an ask.

You can try all sorts of things but the best thing to do is warn your vet before hand that she is " supposedly" very bad about needles, so he can be prepared.

Sometimes it is kinder to just put the twitch on and get it over with quickly instead of getting the horse all worked up about it from the start monkeying around.

Could be at one point in she needed multiple shots ( due to illness/ infection) and for some that is all it takes.

[PeteyPie]

I love my vet.

He is so good with the horses and uses a technique where he separates the needle from the syringe, inserts the needle, and then attaches the syringe. With this method, he can give multiple shots with only one stick. Of course it is a huge advantage that my horses were not reactive to needles to start with, but I’ve seen a horse develop that issue.

The poor horse was a stallion and his cowboy owner had him well trained. The owner died and the adult daughter inherited this horse and was afraid of him. She needed to give him shots and was bad at it, with tentative stabs which the horse learned to avoid. I watched her give him a shot once and it was a heavy-handed stab as he tried to jump away. Horrible. Eventually, she couldn’t get close to him with a needle. So when I saw the efficient technique used by my vet I was delighted and relieved.

One little thing which I think is helpful is to rub the horse’s upper neck a few inches away (maybe a foot away) from the injection site. I’m basing this on the idea they use in human birthing, where the skin is stimulated to flood the nerves and diminish pain, as in taking a shower during labor. The same idea is used when you broadly rub your elbow and arm when you hit your funny bone. So I do this while I’m holding the horse when the vet gives a shot and I’ve asked him if it helps or if I’m getting in the way and doing something totally unhelpful or annoying. He was not effusively positive, but he said it doesn’t hurt. So I don’t really know if he’s humoring me or the horse.

Edit to add:
I see Bluey does the same thing, so I feel better about my technique. We were typing at the same time. Bluey’s concise explanation:

What works well for us if a horse is touchy is to scratch the horse hard regularly close to where the shot goes.
Then have someone scratching there and give the shot at the same time with the scratching.
The horses generally don’t really can tell vigorous scratching from a shot, if you do it nicely.

[merrygoround]

I have a vet who strolls in, scratches neck for a few min, with a few pats, then with the needle between thumb and fore finger, pats the neck some more with the back of the hand, reverses hand and pops it in. Most horses don’t know it’s there, and then the syringe is quietly attached, and all done. If blood occurs, then the needle is redirected with out removing.

Now I did have one clever witch who could, if she realized it was there, pop it out. But she wasn’t difficult any how.

[ChestnutArabianMare]

@clint

I had a mare who had some bad experiences with needles as a foal and became a nightmare with needles as she grew. I used operant conditioning, as outlined in this article, and it worked. She finally learned to relax and by the time I sold her, the phobia had completely disappeared. Initially however, she was dangerous.

https://www.vet.upenn.edu/docs/default-source/research/equine-behavior-laboratory/how-to-injection-shyness.pdf?sfvrsn=fa27e0ba_0

I’ll second this technique. My mare was terrible for shots when I first got her. She was never of the sort to try to strike at you or squish you, but she’s athletic enough to make it challenging if she’s not interested in participating. I ended up giving her her shots and drawing blood from her with no one holding her while she stood calmly. It took about 3 7 or 8 minute sessions and she was good to go. I had taken the time to teach her a couple of tricks beforehand so she was familiar with operant conditioning and she’s very, very intelligent and extremely food motivated, which helped.

We tried a twitch before this technique and found out a twitch was apparently more objectionable than needles. Oh, and she overrides Dormosedan. She’s the magical never get sleepy horse.

[WildLittleWren]

That is great that the owner and trainer told you! I once rescued a 3.5yo OTTB with the sweetest, most docile personality you could imagine. The vet came out to give vaccines and she about killed me, the vet, and the vet tech. We were all caught by surprise by how violent she reacted as soon as the vet stepped into her stall. She was rearing, striking, and kicking. She actually broke the entire wall off the stall, and busted a pipe outside of her stall. It was a mess. Had I known, I would definitely have worked with her before calling the vet out!

[anon40672407]

My gelding had sarcoids, and the treatment was tiny, encircling shots of something nasty. He went from fine to very needle shy. I tried scratching, then pinching, back to scratching, to try to desensitize him. Not really successful. We had one vet at the practice who was great with the running jab for vaccines, but careful needle placement for blooddraws were very hard

[kande04]

@Obsidian Fire

Just going to throw this in: Many times you have to give a shot in the hindquarters. I had to, years ago, for a mare that got sick and needed those huge penicillin shots. Her poor hiney looked like a pincushion by the time we were done. Since then, I’ve always given shots in the hind. Until now… my mare now will kick you (yes, she isn’t shy about it either) if you try to give her a shot, or rub her udder, she’s just plain defensive! I can do a shot in her neck but she gives me the stink eye the whole time.

So in your case, I think I would pre-sedate with some Dorm gel, then give the shots.

This happened to a mule we had who had a couple weeks of (totally unnecessary) penicillin shots. We dealt with it for years until the combination of blinders (his fear became associated with the approach rather than the shots themselves) and clicker training fixed it.

[kande04]

@Ghazzu

I’m with the clicker-training folks.
I’ve had more success with that approach than any other.

And besides, it’s fun, and understanding how it works often has a positive effect on how trainers use pressure and release, too.

[HungarianHippo]

Agree with doing a twitch right off the bat-- you know it’s likely a problem, so don’t wait til she explodes and now you’re twitching an already-freaked mare.
And have your vet leave you a syringe and practice with her every day. Pinch the skin, simulate the shot, treat. Repeat.
Right now, every single time someone approaches her neck with a syringe, it hurts. But when she gets these “fun” painless shots every day, it won’t offend her as much when one or two of them result in a stick.

Ask your vet when doing vaccinations to rotate the shots around the body-- my vet will do one in the neck, then one in the HQ, etc.

[rhymeswithfizz]

I acquired a horse that was absolutelyterrible with needles. He was the sort who would “fight” rather than flight. The first time the vet came to give shots, the horse threw his body at him and tried to squash him against the wall – while he didn’t actually strike (vet was at his shoulder and I was at his head), I am glad that my vet is extremely quick and nimble or he would have been flattened. We were not warned that he was like this.

This horse’s ground manners were atrocious when he came to me, which was the real root of the problem. Twitch didn’t help, chain shank didn’t help. Blinkers on their own didn’t help; horse was too hyper aware that the vet was in shot-position.

The eventual solution was me tickling and teasing his nose and lips with his favorite cookies. By the time he noticed the shot was happening, it was done, but he was munching his cookies so it wasn’t as upsetting. Vet, bless him, was very patient as we tried to figure him out.

I like the “fake shot” idea – that might have helped this horse too. Wish I’d thought of that!

[HorsesinHaiti]

I had a pony in Haiti who was awful about shots. Penicillin shots, again. One of my problems was, he quickly figured out ANY simulation and was quickly meh, that don’t count. Even separating the needle from the syringe, he could smell if the syringe was loaded or not and fought back only when we broke out actual shots. No trick worked on him more than once!