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Horse (Supposedly) Really Bad With Needles

Off Course
#1

Wasn’t sure where to put this… So here we go.

I purchased a 6y/o Hanoverian mare about 3 months ago, and shes wonderful in every way. A bit pushy but very friendly. I’ve been working on her manners since I got her and shes gotten a lot better. Never any aggressive “pushiness”, just loves people and has a very “in your face” personality that sometimes translates to her being a bit pushy. Not sure if this is at all relevant to my problem, but I figured some insight to her personality would potentially help.

My lovely mare, who loves all people, acquaintances and known people alike, is extremely bad with needles. -Supposedly-… I say supposedly because I have yet to see for myself, but her old owner and trainer both attested to the idea that she is problematic with needles. Loves my vet, and has no issue with her or any related “vet stuff” since my vet has done a check on her after she arrived, but apparently is quite “bad” about shots and needles. The trainer she was with made it sound worse than the owner had, saying she would strike out and needs a twitch. I have a hard time imagining my mare this way, but I will definitely take it into account and make note of it to my vet when she visits.

My question is: is there anything I can do with my mare, to work on this with her? Assuming this behaviour is present, is this something I can eliminate, or at least decrease, even before shes put in the situation to need another shot? She will be due to get some vaccinations soon, and I would love for it to be a relatively pleasant experience for everyone – especially her and my vet!

I have never experienced anything like this, and I would love some insight. I know its hard to fully detail what is going on, or how dramatic it is without seeing it first hand, and will likely be difficult to eliminate/decrease without the presence of a needle, but I figured it was worth a shot. Have at it, COTH!

#2

A set of blinkers made vacs a non-event for one of my ‘Hot and Aggressive’ hackney mares when confronted with needles / blood draws & vacs.

Find a set of blinkers to borrow for vet work.
Half cup blinkers work nicely.

Hope this helps to remove that ‘dangerous to all involved’ struggle ~

HAPPY HOLIDAYS !

5 Likes
#3

I have never come across a horse that is bad about needles. Maybe the fear came from someone that is terrible at giving shots? I think the only way to sort this out would be to see the behavior. Was a vet giving the shots or someone else? How was she otherwise for the trainer and seller?

1 Like
#4

I’ve had two who came to me with needle “issues” … pulling back, charging forward, etc. One was also extremely bad about paste meds in the mouth … since she was 16.3, when she got her head in the air, it was a challenge. I very successfully used clicker training to overcome this. Yes, it takes time. I established a base of simple behaviors with clicker training … turn head to side, one step forward, two steps back, turn around with just my body posture as a cue, walk-trot-halt on verbal command. Once both mares had “learned to learn” with the clicker-treat pairing, we moved on to the needles and pastes. I went through a bunch of dry needles with no syringe or injection, rewarding with lots of clicks and treats when they stood still for the pinch of the needle. Same with lots of clicks-treats for tolerating an empty tube being pushed into a mouth. Once we moved on to actual injections and paste doses, it was a non-event. The one mare was a little surprised the first time actual paste when into her mouth, but a clicker followed by lots of treats taught her this was an OK thing.

Star

5 Likes
#5

Just let the vet deal with it. I have dealt with horses like this. There is no “working on it” that is pleasant for anyone, least of all the horse, and it’s very easy for someone to get hurt. This isn’t a dog who is bad with nail clipping, this is a large livestock animal in self protection mode. Let it be that she is twitched for stickers and everyone will have a good day.

12 Likes
#6

@TheMoo

Vet was previously giving shots. The trainer made it sound like an extremely dramatic event, horse “requiring a long twitch because she will strike”. Owner made it sound like the trainer had made it out to be more of a production than it was, though still made me aware that she isn’t good with shots prior to purchase.

#7

@Sswor Noted. Thank you. Figured it was worth an ask.

#8

I’ve got that exact mare! I basically bought two feral Hanoverian mares that had very limited but positive interactions with people. They had never seen a vet or a farrier, or a trailer, or a stall… you get the picture.
I spent a lot of time in the round pen, used some natural horsemen tricks to get to the point where she would even let me touch her. Then we spent a ton of time on groundwork and the concept of my space, your space. All was progressing swimmingly and I was so proud of how awesome everything was!
Then the vet showed up to give their first shots. It was a nightmare. One mare was fine but the 6 yr old was so scared and she lost all of her training. She’s big and my vet is tiny, it took us 2 hrs. She was striking, spinning bulldozing. I still can’t believe my vet stuck with it. In the end it took 2 tubes of dorm gel and a twitch. I was totally traumatized, she seemed fine :wink:
I then spent the next several months with a dummy shot, no needle and every morning I would go in to her stall and pinch her several times with the shot in place. I used treats and lots of positive praise and made it a quick no big deal thing. The first couple of times she was super reactive but once it became routine and she knew that no harm was meant she was super chill about it. The next time the vet came she got the shots in her in less than 3 minutes.
The big thing for my mare ultimately was trust. As her trust in me grew so did the things I could do to her. When we do shots I still have to hold her as she doesn’t have a ton of respect for the vet tech but that system worked for me. Good luck and be careful!

7 Likes
#9

VERY cool. I have also actually started basic clicker stuff with my mare yesterday, as to occupy her busy brain and hopefully help her to learn that she will get the love and attention (and treats!) she seeks out when she waits for it in a respectful way! She has already mastered the “turn away” and give her person (me) some space rather than basically climbing on top of me for attention… I will look into this method for the needles as well. So far she has really enjoyed it, so it is worth a shot! Such a smart impressionable young horse, at the very least, if it doesn’t help, I’m sure she’ll enjoy the learning. Thank you!

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#10

@Zu Zu Great idea! I will look into that for her. Thank you!

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#11

Get an empty syringe without a needle on it to pretend shot and see how she reacts. If she has issues start giving her some treats (molasses?) out of the syringe until she associates the syringe with something good. Carry the syringe with you all the time until it is normal for her to see it. Pretend to give her a shot every time you groom her. Patience is key if she has had bad episodes with shots.

We have one that was terrified. He would tense up so much the vet had to get thicker needles so he wouldn’t bend it trying to get them in. We still cover the eye on the side of the shot but he’s gotten much better.

2 Likes
#12

Yup, never hurts.

But one that strikes while you’re working about the neck area sure can! lol

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#13

@RedgateFarm Reassuring to hear our seemingly similar mares had the same issue, and (more importantly!) that you overcame it. It sounds like routine will be my best bet with her… Routine and lots of treats, that is! :stuck_out_tongue:

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#14

My vet offers clicker training for this kind of issue and can get good results in a short amount of time.

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#15

All replies – I did not expect this many, very helpful replies so quickly! Thank you!:slight_smile:

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#16

Just going to throw this in: Many times you have to give a shot in the hindquarters. I had to, years ago, for a mare that got sick and needed those huge penicillin shots. Her poor hiney looked like a pincushion by the time we were done. Since then, I’ve always given shots in the hind. Until now… my mare now will kick you (yes, she isn’t shy about it either) if you try to give her a shot, or rub her udder, she’s just plain defensive! I can do a shot in her neck but she gives me the stink eye the whole time.

So in your case, I think I would pre-sedate with some Dorm gel, then give the shots.

1 Like
#17

I have a semi-feral mini that is great for EVERYTHING (once you catch her) except bathing and needles. She absolutely flips out. I got her when she was 20+ and had been used as a brood mare so it’s anyone’s guess the cause.

Once it helped to cover her face with a towel. (Once). So, blinders might have helped but not sure they would have been enough.

Now the vet sort of does a quick “drive by” of Dorm IM in her rump and then we let that take effect. If she was younger and/or needed more treatment we might have to work more on this issue. For us, this is effective and fast.

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#18

I’ve got a horse who will strike out when given shots. Honestly it’s not that big of a deal for me. She’s a bit over dramatic about a lot of things so this is just one more. I would never want a novice handler on her for any sort of shots, but anyone competent can get it done without much danger. She requires a lip chain or twitch if you need to stick her more than once both IV or IM.

I’ve had her for three years and while I would like to say she has improved, ultimately I am always very cautious when it comes to shots. She will no longer charge at you when you hold off her vein, but she will most defiantly still strike out if you aren’t efficient about the whole thing. No clue what has made her like this, it’s just one of her things and we deal. I have mastered how to hold her up against the wall with a lip chain with one hand and hit her vein with the other, but that took some time. If she needs regular injections due to injury or something (thankfully not very often) I end up stitching in a catheter to avoid the drama.

ultimately I don’t think there is much you can do with one who really is and about them like this. Instilling better ground manners and personal space defiantly improved her reactions, but didn’t make them go away. She’ll always be one that will go through you come hell or high water if you push too far. I definitely think repetition helped as well, but short of sticking them Regularly, the options are limited.

My mares trigger seemed to be having any sort of pressure placed on her jugular… so working on handling that part of her neck daily helped. No need to actually stick her, bc she was more offended by lingering hands on her neck than anything else.

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#19

@hlra11 Thank you for the insight!!

#20

@GreyHntr you’re welcome!

Be thankful you bad had a heads up! I found out the hard way after she was in my
barn do r a few weeks and came down with a fever and limb swelling from some tick bite issues. Despite her full appearance she woke RIGHT up and tried to jump on me when I went to stick her. It was eye opening for sure!

I hope your girls history is a bit embellished and she’s perfectly normal.

1 Like

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