How do you correct this issue (at the canter and canter-trot transitions)?
I know it stems from anxiety, but I am not sure what to do when it happens.
Forward seemed like it should be the answer, but that did not appear affective.
Or…how to I prevent it from happening? is it something I am likely doing? Anxiety seems to be the trigger as it only happens in extreme situations (showing, cantering between scary things and such)
I would say completely ignoring and keeping on the aid you had. What do you mean by pop up? One stride?, more than that? A kick out?
@SuzieQNutter she isn’t kicking out…just “light behind”. A judge would say “loss of rhythm”. It is like her canter behind gets stabby I guess, and on a different rhythm than front: kind of a shorter hoppy stride behind that doesn’t have enough joint flexion so the back end ends up being higher. It will last from one stride to many depending on the cause. It can turn into a lead change, but obviously not a desirable one. I speculate it came from a previous rider trying to teach changes, but I am not sure.
Your horse is getting hollow and on the forehand for a few stride. Front and back are kinda disconnected.
You will likely get the « croup high » comment on your test sheet.
You need to work on your half halt and keeping her « through », no matter what.
Shoulder-in/fore position and leg yielding toward the rail will help. Inside flexion, firm inside leg cues to your outside rein, making sure you keep her round.
Anxiety is often pain related. I suggest checking your horse’s back.
How old is your horse and where is she at in her training? Some horses go through a stage when they are first learning to load the hind end (think Second Level-ish) where they just can’t hold it for very long and they end up flailing out behind because dumping on the forehand is just easier. Some disguise it as a spook but really it’s that they feel the need to be “let out” of the new way of going, especially if they are young and/or weak.
The advice to get a vet check is good, just to make sure it’s a training issue and not body soreness/saddle fit/hocks/whatever.
Good advice so far. Adding - try spiraling in from a 20m circle to a diameter just before the horse begins to struggle. Allow the down transition when the horse wants to trot. Then immediately spiral out gently, allow a stretch if the horse offers. When ready, transition up and repeat.
Hopefully it’s obvious that this should be done in moderation after the horse is warmed up but not tired.
Another good option depending on the horse’s level is to use a square (Gueriniere square). Make the down transition just after straightening from the corner, or just before if the horse tells you that’s easier for him.
This one requires a certain amount of hind-end strength so don’t use this if you’re not there yet (as Suspira implied).
Also, I would not assume that the anxiety is causing the disobedience. Could be the opposite.
Good luck!
And stifles. Definitely check the stifles.
My Paint mare can give me an infinite variety of canter styles. Sometimes it’s lovely balanced collected. Other times she falls on the forehand and does what I call “pronging” behind, and it can feel like a cross between a jackhammer and a buck. For her, the solution is to ride forward, and once we have impulsion, that pronging canter is gone for the rest of the schooling session.
I have seen what it looks like from the ground with other people riding, and have asked: does it feel like she’s trying to buck right now? The answer was “yes.” But from the ground it’s clear she isn’t bucking at all, and it doesn’t even look that bad, only that her hind legs aren’t really under her.
Lots of horses can get on the forehand in the canter, and it’s never a great feeling, but IME a longer strided horse gives you a different sort of forehand canter to this.
So I agree that this probably has nothing to do with bucking, or even wanting to buck. It is falling onto the forehand as a strength or perhaps body sore issue. It is also possible that your horse is more on the forehand than you think most of the time, and the transitions just make this really obvious.
It is definitely anxiety. It is not soreness or fatigue. I agree with @alibi_18 that it is type of hollowing.
I am looking for advice on how to correct/prevent/address: like when she gets tight in front, I use shoulder in. Works great, but while a shoulder in helps with hollowing in the front, it is not possible with this type of hollowing: her back is too tight in the lumbar, and her hind leg are too stiff. She simple can’t.
A place I see this when watching/scribing dressage, is in tempe changes.
Interestingly, while my horse does often swap leads when this is in this state, she does not do this when I have consciously asked for a flying change. She also does not do this when I ask for a working canter pirouette or half pass, so I don’t feel it is an invasion to work or using herself. It is just tension.
@Scribbler the only transition this happens in, is if I ask for a trot (or walk) at “X” when going across the diagonal. This has become but rare but it happens when she gets anxious. But…when anxious it will happen all over the place in the canter. Sometimes also comes with a tail swish.
You don’t mention age, or stage of training. This is a common reaction when a horse is not strong enough to strike off easily.
My go to would have been SI, but you said that doesn’t work, so I’d try other lateral work - renvers and haunches-in probably. You could also see if some leg yield from quarter line to track helps separate the hind legs.
I’d also do a bunch of trot-canter-trot transitions on a circle in your warm up thinking about keeping the separation of the hind legs the same distance in the trot and the first and last stride of the canter.
I’m still betting on some weakness between hip and stifle that allows the stupid stifle joint to go whoopsie to a mild degree. It will indeed happen more under stressful situations. Do you ever get/have you ever got the feeling that she “forgot” a hind leg in any down transition or even when walking on footing she is not used to?
Anyway, if you’re sure sure sure she’s sound, make a 10m or 8m circle in canter before every transition down at home. If you’re practicing a test, add them in. Continue in the new gait for one more circle before proceeding. On a small circle she will be more attentive and you will be less likely to leave her to her own devices. It will become habit for both of you and eventually you can do away with the circle and only need to feel for the circle preparation. To get there, continue until it becomes habit and really easy. Next step is to take away the canter circle but still do the trot circle. Final step is to take away both circles.
Exercises mentioned above are also great.
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Current plan: I am going to work on making her lateral work at the canter a more reliable, with hopes that she will continue to be able to do them when stressed, and hopefully that keeps her on her rhythm.
@sascha no issues with her forgetting a leg in her transitions. This isn’t just a transition issue though, that is just one example of where it comes up. She can actually do the popping up on a small circle.
My suggestion is that this is a weakness of the hind end…generic hind end, which includes the SI, stifle, hock.
I would suggest getting out of the ring and doing big canters in open country over undulating and uneven terrain so that the horse learns how to balance itself.
If open country is not available to you, free lunging (eg., off the halter with no other accouterments or auxiliary reins) on the grass or high grass or a hill with a small grade are other options.
Move the circle, ask the horse to spiral in and out of the circle, do transitions on the circle…etc. Use your imagination.
Transitions are a tool.
to keep the mind fresh, the circuits from overloading, and to strengthen the body.
I would step training back a level or two, more transitions, lengthening and shortening,
And if you can - Hill work.
Without seeing video I get the strong feeling that ‘hollow’ is a more pervasive problem.
I was able to talk to a pro who saw my horse in action during one of these moments at the canter: apparently when she does this, her hind legs aren’t actually getting closer together…which is how it feels. it was described to me that she is just getting more suspension behind and that her back looks rounded/roached (which would explain why I get pushed forward). They felt it was resistance to leg? So what I thought I was feeling, wasn’t quite accurate. Not sure if that changes things.
It is a rare occurrence: perhaps I wasn’t clear on that.
Then, do you think she’s unloading the hind and falling on the forehand?
This new information kind of sounds like you might be blocking her from going up and out in the front end and she’s releasing the tension by lightening the back end. I totally understand the instinct to gain control by using the front end when there’s tension.
Would going to a medium canter and getting the front end to jump work better? Maybe transitions between medium and pirouette canter thinking about getting the poll up and shoulders “climbing” in both gaits - then you are allowing her to lighten the load on the hind end and then increasing the collection again while still keeping the shoulders up and jumping.
@theresak yes, I think you’ve got it. I think when she gets anxious, I get tight, so she gets tight. In normal transitions, she has a light, elastic contact, but when she gets worried, we loose that elasticity. Her tension just shows up in a different way than typical.
Ultimately, I really need to figure out how to make her less afraid of her trigger items so we can reduce the cycle of tension.
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