Hey everyone…
So there is this OTTB, he’s 4 years old, 17hh, and the sweetest boy I’ve met. He only raced once and got dead last lol… But such a great mind on him. I’m falling in love with him but I’m trying to look at the situation as a potential buyer for the lower jumpers (like 3’). He is slightly toed out out in the front. Nothing severe but there enough that you can notice it. As far as I can tell with his movement he does NOT wing; he moves pretty straight.
He also has great even movement and is very balanced in his trot and canter. My friend (a thoroughbred trainer) broke him last year as a 3 yo and she recalls that he was straight legged. The other day I found out that his trainer who is NOT a professional farrier just clipped him for pasture and threw him out after he was retired from the track. Now he comes to me toed out and I need to make a decision on him. My farrier said she could bring him in but then my vet said because he is very slightly ewe necked he will never be fixed!? what the heck!? :eek:
So now I am turn to my fellow horsemen and ask your advice. I will post pictures of him later today for you guys
Toeing out is not a huge deal. post legged, ewe necked, and toed out? Might be. I think we need pics to comment better.
And conformationally he’s probably not even ewe-necked. He probably just had over-developed under muscles , and under-developed l
top line muscles. Very typical for a young TB who has been racing/ training.
The pictures will help
Pictures would be helpful.
In my experience, slightly toed out is a non issue. The soundest horse I ever owned (decades of jumping, including 3’9"+, eventing, etc) soundly was toed out a bit.
Toed out doesn’t cause winging (that would be toed in), toed out can cause “plaiting” which can lead to interference. I will say, my very sound eventer - always have some marks on his boots from interfering (while my current horse is slightly toed in - and never interferes).
As for the ewe neck - I agree, often times improperly muscled, thin TBs will look ewe necked - but I also wouldn’t expect a vet to make a comment like that - so perhaps this one is more than just slight?
[QUOTE=Appsolute;7784647]
Pictures would be helpful.
In my experience, slightly toed out is a non issue. The soundest horse I ever owned (decades of jumping, including 3’9"+, eventing, etc) soundly was toed out a bit.
Toed out doesn’t cause winging (that would be toed in), toed out can cause “plaiting” which can lead to interference. I will say, my very sound eventer - always have some marks on his boots from interfering (while my current horse is slightly toed in - and never interferes).
As for the ewe neck - I agree, often times improperly muscled, thin TBs will look ewe necked - but I also wouldn’t expect a vet to make a comment like that - so perhaps this one is more than just slight?[/QUOTE]
Well the vet hasn’t seen him I just called about it. So this advice was just over the phone. I can agree with all of you about the ewe necked… because I have seen and owned ewe necked horses and to me personally he does not look ewe necked (just probably as you all said: lack of muscle up top). As far as riding goes he has absolutely no trouble collecting, he does it automatically and actually overtucks which I will work on him with. Which is not a sign of being ewe necked in my opinion…
I will get pictures soon!
I would rather have toe out than toe in, on a young horse. He is ONLY four, not done growing. I would expect him to develop more chest as he is used and gets both fitter and mature, so he MAY end up with fairly straight legs as a bigger chest pushes his elbows outward in time.
You want the Farrier to “trim to the leg and hoof wear”, NO CORRECTIVE work, that could throw uneven wear on his bony leg column. Then, when and if the leg does turn with horse development, his bones and joints are not off-kilter from being corrected. You really can’t “fix” a horse leg except in the first few weeks of a foal, and then not a lot. Older horse, trying to fix him just makes other problems up the leg. God MADE him that way, so the Farrier needs to work with what horse has got, not FIX him.
Good luck with him.
[QUOTE=goodhors;7784828]
I would rather have toe out than toe in, on a young horse. He is ONLY four, not done growing. I would expect him to develop more chest as he is used and gets both fitter and mature, so he MAY end up with fairly straight legs as a bigger chest pushes his elbows outward in time.[/QUOTE]
YES!! This, absolutely! He’s still a baby and it’s likely his chest hasn’t developed yet. Good chance he’ll end up straight as he finishes growing and filling out.
Thanks everyone! Your advice is settling my worries.
Her is a pic of him under saddle: https://www.dropbox.com/s/nt6hvlneyn1qmot/2014-09-26%2023.29.48.png?dl=0
A pic of his conformation #1: https://www.dropbox.com/s/fozv4gpcmb05ov6/20141001_130937.jpg?dl=0
Confirmation #2:https://www.dropbox.com/s/e30uhjwmtfchpi6/20141001_131027.jpg?dl=0
And front legs: https://www.dropbox.com/s/mwdqfionqm0oucu/20141001_131234.jpg?dl=0
Let me know what you think!
I think he’s lovely! I don’t see a ewe neck. He may still toe out in that left front a bit when he’s all done, but I think he’ll straighten out quite a bit as he fills out. I’d expect the right front to be straight. (From this one pic alone.)
I’m not real keen in his fetlocks/tendons in these pictures, though. His front fetlocks look like they might be enlarged and he looks to be very tied in below the knee. Not sure if that’s really going on or it’s a trick of the pictures, but I would look carefully IRL.
He’s not remotely ewe-necked, and it makes me sad your vet said he is 
he looks like he toes out a little on both fronts. If the trainer who broke him at 3 said he was straight, and now it’s not quite, it could be from the trim job he just got, or it could be him. The former needs to be addressed, the latter needs to be managed as a competent farrier would any other leg.
I noticed the tendons too, particularly the LF. It looks like he has a low bow, that could be old and not a problem at this point, or it could be newer and needs watching. That might be leading to a slightly tied-in look, or he might be a little tied in. If he is, it’s not enough to make me worry for what you want. Many horses are a little tied in without any problems.
I would definitely investigate the lower legs and see what’s what.
[QUOTE=JB;7785302]
I noticed the tendons too, particularly the LF. It looks like he has a low bow, that could be old and not a problem at this point, or it could be newer and needs watching. That might be leading to a slightly tied-in look, or he might be a little tied in. If he is, it’s not enough to make me worry for what you want. Many horses are a little tied in without any problems.
I would definitely investigate the lower legs and see what’s what.[/QUOTE]
Sorry I forgot to mention earlier. This bump happened before he was broke - back when he was a 2 yo - it has never caused him any trouble as he also raced on it and was fine!
Assuming the tendons in front check out, I think he’s lovely. I think he will end up a bit toed out in front - but not enough that it would worry me.
I agree, NOT EWE NECKED! Not all! What is he seeing? I thought perhaps the horse would have a low set neck - giving a ewe appearance, but nope! nicely set as well.
As for the toe’ing out / pasterns / tendons etc - I do agree that these should be more closely evaluated.
One thing I have been taught is that toeing in or out is less of an issue if the deviation starts HIGH. If a horse’s whole leg is a bit turned out, from the eblow down, that is much less of a concern than if the rotation starts at the knee or fetlock. From this one photo - it looks like he turns out at the fetlock (instead of the whole leg rotated outward).
From these few wonky photos he looks a bit thick and straight through the fetlock and pastern.
I think I would want films of fetlocks and pasterns. Especially if this is a deviation he was not born with - but rather developed.
Otherwise I think he looks lovely!
https://www.dropbox.com/s/omcnf7wb2di6uca/20141001_131148.jpg?dl=0
Here is a better photo of just his fronts… maybe you can get a better look at him 
[QUOTE=joiedevie99;7785344]
Assuming the tendons in front check out, I think he’s lovely. I think he will end up a bit toed out in front - but not enough that it would worry me.[/QUOTE]
And if you are still on the fence about him, put a saddle on him naked to see how hard/easy it will be to fit him. Yes, yes, I know he doesn’t have the right back yet.
But you see how his withers are long and there’s some curve behind them? That back looks “unconventional” to me. This horse might be the one that’s harder-than-average to fit. JMO.
I like everything else about him. If I could get a good farrier (rather than a vet) to look at his feet and infer how much of that toeing out was done by trimming and/or narrow-baby-horse-chest), I’d feel I could trust the answer.
His withers and back look very similar to my mare’s. Amerigo/Vega and County Warmblood fits her very well. I can’t get a feel for this guy’s shoulders, but she has deceptively wide shoulders, and those saddle do well with the combination of wide shoulders, tall withers, curvy back.
