I have a 3 year old colt. He INSIST to ride with his head up. I have been working on naturally getting him to drop his head, by taking him up and down hills up here in the mountians—he still manages to keep his head up and trips over rocks and logs. ERRR. I have been using a german martingale. HELP.
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Have you had a vet check him to make sure he’s not keeping his head up due to pain?
Hello,
Yes and I was thinking I should of been more in depth.
I will check with a chiro though to make sure.
We started very easy and he is a big boy at around 16.2. He has always kinda been high headed naturally.
We have been riding very forward, thinking that we would “drive” him into the bit, but after 4 months of really really trying, he will do it for a couple of min, then right back to resisting. I’m having his teeth rechecked this week too.
Any hope? I know he is young, and he is very bull headed, I really thought I’d see SOME KIND OF positive CHANGE in him.
I’m thinking of giving him some time off for a couple of months, maybe he needs to relax again and put energy for growing.
He is a very HAPPY horse. He loves the trail rides, maybe that is part of it too—just sooooooooooo happy. ha ha ha ha. don’t know. He is a “new” kind of horse for me.
It is sooooo exhausting. Probably for him too.
No one on here will slam you for riding that 3 yr old, worrying about his headset, I am sure.
But when you have weeded through all those posts, come back and remember, I asked…
Have you taught this baby to put his head down in hand?
Things like HD do translate well to under saddle work. So, if you haven’t accomplished HD on the ground, do give it a try.
Then of course you will eventually have to have the horse understand that you don’t ALWAYS want HD:) That’s a whole nuther topic.
What breed? could you post pictures of him? He may also have something conformationally preventing him from going as low as you like. If he is navigating terrain insisting his head be high I would tend to suspect this is either the way he is built and you have to work within his means (ie he’s a saddlebred and you are used to WP Qh’s etc), or a pain issue from tack, chiro etc.
I personally would ditch the german martingale, it’s not going to produce anything positive in the long run.
What does he do if you trot him over some cavalettis? Will he lower and stretch then?
I too would get rid of the martingale for a while, and then, after making sure that the chiro/teeth appointments go okay, I’d bring him in the ring for a little while.
In addition to teaching him on the ground first to bring his head down and yield, I’d also suggest working on laterally flexing him. Does he bend easily in both directions? If he is stiff when bending to the sides, work on getting him supple that way before asking him to come onto the bit. Different comformations and personalities make a difference as to how easy it is to get the horse to bend. In addition, perhaps it IS a good idea to give him some time off to regroup and relax. He’s only 3, and while he may seem good, he’s only a baby. Perhaps he’s excited or nervous, and just tense in general- that would cause him to keep his head up.
So bottom line- no martingale for a while, try to fix the problem without it. Give him some time to relax, then spend some quiet time in the ring and go back to basics teaching him to yield to pressures and getting him to soften more. In the ring, there won’t be as much to look at and you won’t have to worry about things going wrong so much, because its an enclosed space. If he’s good, take him out for a short time on the trails to reward him, but don’t let anything turn into a fight. Once you see progress there, start heading back out on the trails, but keep the rides quiet and work on your flexion and keeping him soft out there too.
I completely agree with Hiddenstars. I have a friend who is an avid endurance rider. I am not comparing you to her, but if you are anything like her…
Well, she HATES ring work! :yes:
It is important to teach your horse the basics with lateral work, preferably in a snaffle or short-shanked loose jaw curb with a very soft ergonomic mouth. I would also try round pen work. Usually a high-headed horse has a weak topline. By asking your horse to walk, trot, and lope a little in the round pen without the restriction of rider and reins, you can allow him to redevelop his musculature and rediscover forward motion and balance. A high-head is usually indicative of vertical movement, unless his head position is appropriate for his breed.
Ask your horse to move at a forward gait until he relaxes his topline and lowers and lengthens his neck. Ask for a stride or two at a time at first, and then gradually increase the number of times you ask for the stretch over the course of a couple of weeks. You’ll see a difference in your horse’s body and he should become more relaxed.
After that, do the lateral work and make sure that your hands are soft and supportive, not restrictive, to help your horse continue to improve under saddle.
And kudos to you for getting the chiropractor and equine dentist out to see your horse. That’s the best place to start!
All the best!
Dale 
Start punishing him every time he trips–a little jab with your heels and “watch it” in a bad boy, strict voice. You’ll be amazed at how fast he improves. Once he’s good to go, stop punishing him for trips (all of them trip from time to time)–but start the punishment up again if the trips increase to the point that you know it’s because he isn’t paying attention.
Gad! No!! This is a baby who is just trying to deal with his own growing, gawky body, and is now being asked to carry over 100 lbs of weight on his back! Give the poor young thing a break!
No punishing, no anger. And get rid of the d@mn German “martingale” – which are really modified draw reins – you are doing nothing but pulling down on the bars of his sensitive mouth and setting up a tug of war between you and your horse. Stop being so friggin’ concerned about the high head carriage. Growth, time, and quiet gentle work will get you much farther than jabs and anger and inappropriate tack.
If you want to encourage lower head carriage, work over poles on the ground. Quiet walks first to make sure you have the spacing of the poles correct, then quiet trots on a loose rein. Leave the horse to figure it out himself. This naturally brings the head down as he learns to look down at the poles and will begin to transfer to the horse watching his footfall on the ground in later flat work.
If you use a round pen do it very sparingly, only 1-2x a week for a very short period of time – not more than 15 minutes. Constantly turning on a radius is VERY harmful to a growing youngster because of the torque it puts on young bones. Better to use a large area of the pasture and work straight lines.
[QUOTE=Petstorejunkie;3055419]
What breed? could you post pictures of him? He may also have something conformationally preventing him from going as low as you like. If he is navigating terrain insisting his head be high I would tend to suspect this is either the way he is built and you have to work within his means (ie he’s a saddlebred and you are used to WP Qh’s etc), or a pain issue from tack, chiro etc.
I personally would ditch the german martingale, it’s not going to produce anything positive in the long run.
What does he do if you trot him over some cavalettis? Will he lower and stretch then?[/QUOTE]
I agree what breed is he? My hubby’s Fox Trotter has a natural head carriage that is high. If he doesn’t fall into that catagory then my second guess would be age (he is a baby and still growing and etc) or pain.
Young, big horses often go through the “klutz” period of development where they lack the strength and coordination to make their body work in harmony. A “naturally high headset” just makes the problem more challenging.
The medicine for this problem is Tincture of Time (the MOST difficult medicine any human ever has to use).
While applying TofT it’s not a bad idea to do basic ground work both in hand and under saddle. Horses don’t “hate” ground or ring work. They “hate” being forced to do that which they are not prepared to do. They “hate” being forced to do that which they lack the strength, fitness, conformation, etc. to do. Those are the great wellsprings of horse “hatred.”
So follow Alois Podhajsky’s dictum: I have time.
While doing the basics there’s nothing wrong with some easy hacking out. But the operative word is “easy.” Stick to boring (for the human) prepared trails that will allow the horse to develop fitness and strength.
Punishing a three year old for being a three year old is a monumentally bad idea; so is use of German Martingale (or any other like equipment including side reins, tie downs, curb bits, etc.).
You have time. Use it wisely.
G.
NO. I’m sorry but this is NOT good advice at all. :no: This is a 3 year old BABY. Babies are gangly, especially at 16.2 hands. Sheesh! They’re like teenaged boys tripping over their own feet.
I do lots of ground work at home to teach the horse to watch its feet. Not punishment.
If this were my horse I would do very light, easy work walking and trotting ground poles, going over tarps, bridges, water, etc. Anything to get the horse to drop his head, smell, look, and proceed with caution.
I set up ground poles (flat on the ground) then cover them with a tarp. Walk, the horse in hand very slowly over them. He’ll bump the poles under the tarp and then realize there’s something under there. Pat him, talk softly, encourage him to proceed only one step at a time, picking his way over the tarp and through the poles. Start with only one pole, then increase to two, then three. This worked so well with my baby to really pay attention to her feet. Because after all the ground wasn’t really what it seemed to be.
Please get rid of the martingale. You’ll get an appliancy neck, fake “headset” and a horse who wants to guard his mouth from the impending punishment.
Just take it slow and natural. It’s a baby. And it’s a very big, klutzy baby at that. This whole craze of having a finished horse at 3 or 4 years old is absurd. My 5 year old mare is still far far from “finished.” I probably won’t even consider her adult for another year.
After reading your post, I have to jump in here and I hope this is constructive and not preachy. I did CT for 20 years as well as eventing off and on. Your baby sounds like he doesn’t know how to “put his head down.” Do you know how to ask him to go on the bit? Dressage lessons are always a good thing for riders and horses, it teaches stretching, relaxation and general good form.
Even though you are not a dressage rider, you may find lessons will help both of you and remember some breeds are bred to have a high head carriage like Arabs etc. Everyone here has basically said what I am thinking. I hope you do well and give us an update.
he’s a baby.
He’s big.
I bet he’s gaited and gawky.
I am riding my 16.2 3 YO head in the clouds TWH/SSH baby and never dream of punishing her for being clumsy or looky. I pray occasionally as it’s a LONG way down on yon bebe…I ask her to bend and flex, or circle to get her attention and talk her into dropping her face to look at things, and when she goes she gets praise and the occasional cookie. I have to remember she’s cutting teeth, young, silly, etc…do not beat him up for being a kid.
We’re adding evening ground pole sessions loose/free lunging over them, and riding over them a little. Do not overdo it. You have time. Take time.
You could also post pics just to evaluate what he looks like.
Horses don’t like tripping either-
IMO, take off the german martingale and leave his face alone. He’s young. Let him figure it out.
Keep the terrain relatively simple, as he gets used to going out he’ll relax, and as he trips more he’ll figure out he should watch where he’s putting his feet a little better.
[QUOTE=Horsecrazy27;3055308]
I have a 3 year old colt. He INSIST to ride with his head up. I have been working on naturally getting him to drop his head, by taking him up and down hills up here in the mountians—he still manages to keep his head up and trips over rocks and logs. ERRR. I have been using a german martingale. HELP.
.[/QUOTE]
I have a 12 year old Morgan mare with the same problem. She was driven in an overcheck rein for years, so used to holding her head up like a giraffe. It’s taken over a year of slow training to rebuild her muscles, teach her to balance herself, etc. and now she goes in a nice frame most of the time, and better every day. It progressed up from the walk. We did lunge work on each thing first (walk-trot transition, trot-canter transition) (used sidereins lunging, but kept them long, just to give her a feeling of contact on the bit, and something to reach for) before doing it under saddle, so she could find her balance and have some muscle development. We learned to bend a little from the leg, then more. After some time added ground poles and leg yielding - that had great results for suppling her back. We made it a practice - walk til the head comes down on a soft rein. Then ask for trot. If the head comes up, go back to walk, wait for the head to come down, then ask for trot again. A decent try was rewarded, a mistake never punished, just go back and try again til she got it, then reward. A very slow process, but she has developed a lot of confidence in herself. She used to stagger downhill with her head up when trail riding, after many months she finally turned a corner and figured out how to round herself, use her hindquarters, and go downhill in a civilized and safe fashion. A long process, and we still have work to do, but she’s worth it, and I’m enjoying learning the process too, from my trainer… I’d imagine a 3year old has to start from simple steps too, especially if built high-headed.
You haven’t said what breed it is yet, but if it is an Arab get used to looking at the world through his ears. I hate to ride those horses with their heads down. It always feels as though i’m going to go throiugh the windshield
I think his head is up as he is being overworked, balancing the weight on his middle and how hard it is to drive himself forward by raising his head...the same idea that lets/allows a broke and well developed horse to drop his head and "go deep"...
also many times horses who trip over rocks and logs in the woods are often in a state of mild panic..."get it over with" kinda mentality...it takes being still inside to look down and actually see the things in front of you...any gomer can crash thru what is around them...it takes thinking about foot placement to go carefullyHe’s a big young horse and you’re not doing him any favors.
Lose the contraptions, have the vet check him out for back or other problems, and then see the help of a qualified trainer experienced with young horses. Or at least have a competent trainer work with both of you if you can’t send the horse away.
Young horses (especially the heavier breeds) are often clumsy. They’re just not balanced. Cavalletti can help, ground poles can help, and dressage will certainly help. Martingales won’t - not a bit.
Good luck.
IIRC, isn’t he some kind of warmbloody type? I would stop worrying about his head at all right now. He needs to grow up and gain some muscle first and then you can start worrying about his head.
I wouldn’t personally be doing much with him at 3, given his size and what I think he might be, but he’s not my horse and people’s ideas on when to start horses varies widely.
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