Horse Tied in stall- need perspective

[saultgirl]

It sounds like you’re not happy there and you’re moving, so that’s good.

As far as perspective, if the horse is tied at a proper length but still has access to water and hay, I don’t really have a problem with it. When my horses come in, they are tied for up to 12 hours, and they are content. They have water, hay, and can lie down (my gelding always lies down for a nap when he’s in, but the mare does not).

If the barn owner was tying him at supper then untying at night check, I would not consider it cruel or abusive.

[Guilherme]

“Disciplinary tying” is common in the QH world. It has a place but that place is quite limited. For long periods of time, particularly if the head is tied up, it’s not a sound practice.

G.

[Clair2014]

I think tying is more prevalent in the western world than in other disciplines. I worked out of a predominately western barn for a number of years and the owner would tie horses in their stalls at dinner time if they had been unruly in the pasture, had been running around, and had gotten too hot to safely eat. She would leave them tied (sometimes hose them, if necessary) until they had cooled down and then release them. Considering she had 20+ horses to bring in and feed by herself, I thought that was a reasonable solution and safer than just throwing the horses in and letting them eat while hot, sweaty, and worked up. At this barn, the tying was not meant to teach the horse anything but rather to prevent a hot horse from eating and/or drinking and then getting sick. That being said, none of the horses were still tied more than an hour later. That’s the closest scenario I could think of to your situation but it doesn’t sound like the same thing. I think you’re right to leave.

[IndyEquestrian]

There was a boarder who’s horse I tied at dinner time only. He could get to his food and water. What he could not do was rear and strike the walls or kick at his neighbor. The horse was a saint, except at dinner time. . . We only left him tied until his neighbor finished, so 15-20 minutes. The barn walls thanked us, and it kept him from hurting himself.

Tying for hours at a time because he’s “in trouble” is just ridiculous. It doesn’t teach him anything, and he’s your horse. . . If there is an issue, they should have addressed it with you.

I think it is a good idea to relocate your horses. . . Good luck.

[hessy35]

[QUOTE=findeight;8239786]
Even the “patience pole” tree or whatever, used properly, is NOT in the stall or pen. The horse is taken from the stall/pen. After standing tied and/or worked, the horse is returned to the stall/pen and left loose because school is out. He’s done.

Cant for the life of me understand how that horse will see the error of his ways when hes all alone in what should be his safe space and unable to eat, drink, lie down or roll. There’s no relation to doing as the human wishes because no human is there, not going to learn a thing.

BTW, don’t confuse the “patience pole”’ tree or whatever lesson with abusive Western trainers tying the head up all night. They are not trying to teach the horse anything. They are trying to get the neck so sore the horse cannot lift it so it’ll stay low at the show. One is actually teaching the horse to chill and just hang out waiting for instructions. The other is BS abusive treatment in the name of placing higher.

No connection between them but the horse was not tied for either of these reasons. He was tied and left all alone all night because that idiot was mad at it. Or mad at OP.

I would have been out of that barn yesterday. Thats not passive aggressive, that’s a sneaky bully who thinks they are in charge of everything and everybody on the property.[/QUOTE]

I can’t believe people would do that… to place higher. Unreal.

[asb_own_me]

Completely unacceptable.

How was the new place - you went and looked yesterday, correct?

[findeight]

Yes, update needed. Methinks even if it’s not perfect, at least it would get out of where you are and allow you to relax while looking.

[melhorse]

Boarders always freak out when their horse is unmannerly and the barn staff have to correct the horse. Oh but “he is perfect for me”, “I would never do that to my horse!” and other shocking owner complaints are common but really owners need to get a grip on reality. Being tied is the least abusive form of punishment I can think of!! Many barns in Europe have open stalls where the horse is tied over night :eek: Imagine the abuse-lol

If your horse is bad then I would fully expect barn staff to do something- Or do nothing and have someone get hurt. Often owners are not asked about correction methods is because they flip out/get offended and become unreasonable-I have seen it many times working at A show barns. One horse would rear and bite if the leader did not carry a crop-never had to touch him with it but you needed to carry one but the owner never had this problem. The day she saw the BO leading her horse with a jumping bat she freaked out and left the barn…Turns out the barn she went to had to send an employee to the ER because her horse reared on top of the girl the first week!! Owner was sued thankfully but she is still thinks it was the handlers fault…

If you board your horse and think staff will not do any corrections when needed for safety-you need to wake up.

[ladyj79]

I expect barn staff to tell ME to address an issue, not take it upon themselves to “train” my horse. Having been “barn staff”, there are certain things I’ll do to address an issue while directly handling a horse, ie using a chain or carrying a whip, but anything beyond my direct handling of a horse has to be in consultation with the owner. If we can’t come to an agreement, I’d rather be asked to leave a facility then have some jacka$$ messing with my horse.

[TWH_Girl]

[QUOTE=asb_own_me;8240837]
Completely unacceptable.

How was the new place - you went and looked yesterday, correct?[/QUOTE]

OK, new place is meant to be…It’s been in the back of mind to look at this place for a while. My trainer used to board there until she had too many horses in training; she has great rapport with owner and is willing to come there for lessons yet. The farrier there is my (new) farrier; the vet there is my vet, and the barn owner at new place does billing for my vet, which is also handy since sometimes I pay cash so spare hubby from knowing about things like Legend injections before shows…lol

New place is smaller, quieter, no kids, a nice indoor with good footing, heated tack and viewing room, and excellent pasture board. Owner is rearranging a few horses so my two can be together in paddock with a huge shelter. Owner is very nice, I could have chatted with her for hours. She is very accommodating too! At the end, I asked the most important question for me (with bladder issues)…where’s the bathroom?? She said they did not have one :eek: Not even a porta potty (which is what current place has). But she said they priced it out already and were considering it- said if I come, they would do it. Got a text from her last night thanking me for coming by, said she discussed with her husband and they are putting up porta potty right away. I was impressed with that and very grateful. I am moving Saturday!! I think my horses will benefit from the overall quiet and positive atmosphere here. They are putting up an outdoor and have some bridle paths and a field to ride in as well.

I gave notice to current place today. Owner who is friends with the girl who does chores says she was sad to hear I’m leaving, wished i would have discussed with her. I said yeah, but you two are friends and the whole aura this girl gives off is negative and bullying and I just have not been comfortable there for a while. They may lose my friend too who has two horses there as she is thinking of moving them to her boyfriend’s farm. I was diplomatic and nice to owners and they have been good; I just can no longer deal with the barn chore person and this was the last straw.

[TWH_Girl]

[QUOTE=ladyj79;8241000]
I expect barn staff to tell ME to address an issue, not take it upon themselves to “train” my horse. Having been “barn staff”, there are certain things I’ll do to address an issue while directly handling a horse, ie using a chain or carrying a whip, but anything beyond my direct handling of a horse has to be in consultation with the owner. If we can’t come to an agreement, I’d rather be asked to leave a facility then have some jacka$$ messing with my horse.[/QUOTE]

Yes, this is my feeling exactly. I get that horses can be a-holes and I don’t think mine are perfect by any means. They are good horses, but they are horses. I do expect a level of maturity and communication in solving problems though.

[Pennywell_Bay]

[QUOTE=melhorse;8240965]
Boarders always freak out when their horse is unmannerly and the barn staff have to correct the horse. Oh but “he is perfect for me”, “I would never do that to my horse!” and other shocking owner complaints are common but really owners need to get a grip on reality. Being tied is the least abusive form of punishment I can think of!! Many barns in Europe have open stalls where the horse is tied over night :eek: Imagine the abuse-lol

If your horse is bad then I would fully expect barn staff to do something- Or do nothing and have someone get hurt. Often owners are not asked about correction methods is because they flip out/get offended and become unreasonable-I have seen it many times working at A show barns. One horse would rear and bite if the leader did not carry a crop-never had to touch him with it but you needed to carry one but the owner never had this problem. The day she saw the BO leading her horse with a jumping bat she freaked out and left the barn…Turns out the barn she went to had to send an employee to the ER because her horse reared on top of the girl the first week!! Owner was sued thankfully but she is still thinks it was the handlers fault…

If you board your horse and think staff will not do any corrections when needed for safety-you need to wake up.[/QUOTE]

This is NOT a “your horse won’t stand for the farrier so I smacked him/or gave him a clicker cookie” training.

Staff may have to correct a behavior, I feel this is over kill. Plus it wasn’t done by “staff”.

It may be common for some horses and practices. OP did NOT know this was going on, she was NOT aware there was an issue, she was NOT looped in to the resolution. THAT is what is not acceptable, whatever your stance is on patience poles, tying whatever.

OP is a hands on owner. At the barn and never once was she informed of the horse’s apparent bad behavior. There was no " Dobbin has been doing X at feeding, so I had to tie him. "

This was not her trainer or PAID BM making this decision. It was basically another boarder. She got a call at 10:30 at night her horse was still tied. THIS is what some are finding not acceptable.

It may be very common for some horses, but some horses would NOT be OK with that situation and it could become ugly very fast, especially if the horse isn’t used to this.

OP -move your horse, take a breath and seriously buy whoever called you a big bottle of wine or a gift certificate. That was the right thing to do. And she may catch crap from the BO.

[findeight]

[QUOTE=melhorse;8240965]
Boarders always freak out when their horse is unmannerly and the barn staff have to correct the horse. Oh but “he is perfect for me”, “I would never do that to my horse!” and other shocking owner complaints are common but really owners need to get a grip on reality. Being tied is the least abusive form of punishment I can think of!! Many barns in Europe have open stalls where the horse is tied over night :eek: Imagine the abuse-lol…

…If you board your horse and think staff will not do any corrections when needed for safety-you need to wake up.[/QUOTE]

Oh, I absolutely agree with this. OP should consider that if her horse is dragging whoever handles him around, maybe even charging into the stall, that person has every right to discipline the horse. Chain over the nose, setting him down firmly at the instant of infraction is fine. So is telling the BM or trainer to discuss some work in ground manners with the owner, great idea. Staff taking it upon themselves to tie it up after the infraction has been forgotten by the horse and leave it for hours, or forget to go untie it, is not OK because its not even punishment. Horse can’t reflect upon his bad manners being the reason he is tied and can’t eat, drink or lie down.

Horses lived in tie stalls for centuries but not as punishment. It was what they had.

[Roxyllsk]

There are a lot of benefits to tying a horse to a thinking post for a short period of time. I’ve done this a lot with young horses. It teaches them patience. The lead should be short but only so that they can’t get a leg over it, not so that they can’t hold their head and neck in a natural position.

However … it is NOT OK for the BO / BM to do this or anything with my horse unless I am consulted with first. THAT is what would make me mad.

OP, glad you found a place to move.

[S1969]

[QUOTE=melhorse;8240965]
Boarders always freak out when their horse is unmannerly and the barn staff have to correct the horse. Oh but “he is perfect for me”, “I would never do that to my horse!” and other shocking owner complaints are common but really owners need to get a grip on reality. Being tied is the least abusive form of punishment I can think of!! Many barns in Europe have open stalls where the horse is tied over night :eek: Imagine the abuse-lol

If your horse is bad then I would fully expect barn staff to do something- Or do nothing and have someone get hurt. Often owners are not asked about correction methods is because they flip out/get offended and become unreasonable-I have seen it many times working at A show barns. One horse would rear and bite if the leader did not carry a crop-never had to touch him with it but you needed to carry one but the owner never had this problem. The day she saw the BO leading her horse with a jumping bat she freaked out and left the barn…Turns out the barn she went to had to send an employee to the ER because her horse reared on top of the girl the first week!! Owner was sued thankfully but she is still thinks it was the handlers fault…

If you board your horse and think staff will not do any corrections when needed for safety-you need to wake up.[/QUOTE]

Tie stalls and “being tied for punishment” are entirely different things. One is very acceptable, and would also be something that the owner agrees to when signing a boarding contract…the other one is sort of iffy as a training method, although might be acceptable to use when in some circumstances if the horse owner and trainer or barn manager agree to it.

I have no problem with barn staff being allowed to control unruly animals they are in charge of and protect themselves and others (and other animals). I do have a problem if they don’t tell the horse owner. Presumably the horse owner would also want to be part of the solution.

[FineAlready]

[QUOTE=melhorse;8240965]
Boarders always freak out when their horse is unmannerly and the barn staff have to correct the horse. Oh but “he is perfect for me”, “I would never do that to my horse!” and other shocking owner complaints are common but really owners need to get a grip on reality. Being tied is the least abusive form of punishment I can think of!! Many barns in Europe have open stalls where the horse is tied over night :eek: Imagine the abuse-lol

If your horse is bad then I would fully expect barn staff to do something- Or do nothing and have someone get hurt. Often owners are not asked about correction methods is because they flip out/get offended and become unreasonable-I have seen it many times working at A show barns. One horse would rear and bite if the leader did not carry a crop-never had to touch him with it but you needed to carry one but the owner never had this problem. The day she saw the BO leading her horse with a jumping bat she freaked out and left the barn…Turns out the barn she went to had to send an employee to the ER because her horse reared on top of the girl the first week!! Owner was sued thankfully but she is still thinks it was the handlers fault…

If you board your horse and think staff will not do any corrections when needed for safety-you need to wake up.[/QUOTE]

It is not appropriate for the barn owner or manager to substitute his or her judgment over that of the horse owner’s in matters like this without first consulting with the horse owner.

I have a tough horse. He’s led with a chain, everyone knows they have permission to correct him if he gets rowdy while being handled. That’s quite a bit different than implementing a policy that they will tie the horse for HOURS without consulting the owner.

I can MAYBE see doing it ONCE without consulting the owner if there was an emergency situation. But the owner should be told about it immediately, and then the barn owner and horse owner should agree on a plan as to how to handle the situation in the future.

And, I’m sorry, but if a horse consistently behaves for its owner, but not for barn staff? The barn staff probably IS the problem.

[peedin]

I’m glad you’re moving. Frankly, even if the new barn isn’t 100% what you want, go there anyway until you find exactly what you want.

Piece of cr@p BO/BM…

[CindyCRNA]

OP, maybe I missed it but what was your horse being punished for exactly? So glad you found a new barn.

[TWH_Girl]

[QUOTE=CindyCRNA;8241746]
OP, maybe I missed it but what was your horse being punished for exactly? So glad you found a new barn.[/QUOTE]

Well I’m sure sure…I got out of it he was rushing to his stall. I took him in last night and he walked calmly, turned around to let me take off his halter and started to munch on his grain. I haven’t witnesed what he does and she didn’t provide details other than he was rushing.

[saultgirl]

[QUOTE=TWH Girl;8241938]
Well I’m sure sure…I got out of it he was rushing to his stall. I took him in last night and he walked calmly, turned around to let me take off his halter and started to munch on his grain. I haven’t witnesed what he does and she didn’t provide details other than he was rushing.[/QUOTE]

Yup, putting grain in the stall before the horse is in will often lead to them rushing in and diving into their feeders.