Glad you’re getting out of there! I would have been fuming, and also a bundle of nerves wondering what else is happening to him without my knowledge!
And just my personal opinion, but if they were trying to correct his “rushing”, why not correct him while he was actually doing it (if he truly was)? I still don’t understand what tying him once he was in the stall is going to do! 
[QUOTE=showmanship;8242469]
Glad you’re getting out of there! I would have been fuming, and also a bundle of nerves wondering what else is happening to him without my knowledge!
And just my personal opinion, but if they were trying to correct his “rushing”, why not correct him while he was actually doing it (if he truly was)? I still don’t understand what tying him once he was in the stall is going to do! [/QUOTE]
I know. Let’s just say, this horse was owned by a 12 yr old girl who handled, rode and showed him as a 3 and 4 yr old. He’s a horse, but he’s not a handful by any means. My husband let both horses in last night and said they were both fine. I think this is operator error, not the horse!
I’d say this is unacceptable. No barn is perfect, caring for horses involves a lot of important little tasks, but deliberately doing weird things that could endanger a horse is plainly not okay. Leaving a horse tied for long periods of time unsupervised, potentially without access to hay and water could cause a colic or an injury. It can be beneficial to teach horses to stand tied for longer periods of time, but what you are describing sounds more like either revenge on the horse for a perceived misbehavior (not a training method) or just plain old weird and irresponsible. So, stay calm and carry on with your move.
I can’t find the response right now, but somewhere along the way, a poster eluded to the chore person could be taking anger/resentment/envy, etc. out on the horse that is directed at the owner/me…seriously??! People do this?? No matter how I feel about a person, the animal, any animal, is innocent. I am nice and friendly and play with her dogs, even when they are annoying me as I am tacking up my horse.
[QUOTE=saultgirl;8242052]
Yup, putting grain in the stall before the horse is in will often lead to them rushing in and diving into their feeders.[/QUOTE]
yes wondered about that too. I never do that.
As a Barn owner, I agree with the comments that handlers leading horses in and out need to be able to correct horses with rude ground manners.
Obviously. But that is not what is described here.
There is no way that tying a horse in the stall for several hours after they are in the stall will teach the horse not to be rude being handled on the way to the stall. WRONG!
I think this is more about ignorance and or revenge (misplaced) than about effective training.
I would be moving
While I agree with those who say that tying a horse is not inherently abusive, as an owner, I would be unhappy that this change in management was implemented without bothering to inform me.
And I’d also be annoyed that is was allegedly to correct rushing into the stall, as it is a totally idiotic idea.
Even if we take it as true that the horse is doing that, the horse is not going to make any connection between the undesirable behavior and the tying.
^^What Ghazzu said.
Agree with Bluey - this kind of Stoopid is not fixable.
Well worth the extra $$ to move somewhere without asshat management.
OTOH:
Like Wonders & colorful said, standing tied is unlikely related to the RH lameness and tied to a highline is standard practice for overnight camping.
Back In The Day horses were often kept tied in standing stalls - narrow stalls not much wider than the horse, generally with a manger & water in front.
They could lie down and noone seemed to suffer.
I know this is not your situation, but just so you don’t need to stay upset before moving your horse since you aren’t there 24/7 to see if they retie him after you leave.
If they are the kind of b-yotches you describe I would not put that past them.
As long as he can reach water & hay he s/b okay until you can make the move.
[QUOTE=2DogsFarm;8242786]
Agree with Bluey - this kind of Stoopid is not fixable.
Well worth the extra $$ to move somewhere without asshat management.
OTOH:
Like Wonders & colorful said, standing tied is unlikely related to the RH lameness and tied to a highline is standard practice for overnight camping.
Back In The Day horses were often kept tied in standing stalls - narrow stalls not much wider than the horse, generally with a manger & water in front.
They could lie down and noone seemed to suffer.
I know this is not your situation, but just so you don’t need to stay upset before moving your horse since you aren’t there 24/7 to see if they retie him after you leave.
If they are the kind of b-yotches you describe I would not put that past them.
As long as he can reach water & hay he s/b okay until you can make the move.[/QUOTE]
lol I appreciate all the feedback and perspective on this situation. I am actually not mad (I was initially) anymore. I am just glad to be moving out of there. When my husband brought the horses in last night, owner and some boarders were sitting around and he said it was TENSE. Chore girl was doing hay so she wasn’t in the vicinity. My husband is the outgoing, easy going, laid back, jolly and happy type- will talk and joke with anyone, play with kids and dogs, etc. He’s a likable guy, so for him to fell uncomfortable…:no: I told him, yeah, that’s how I felt after every ride!!!
I think I needed a “reason” and here it is, so there I go. Excited for the move tomorrow!
[QUOTE=TWH Girl;8242628]
I can’t find the response right now, but somewhere along the way, a poster eluded to the chore person could be taking anger/resentment/envy, etc. out on the horse that is directed at the owner/me…seriously??! People do this?? No matter how I feel about a person, the animal, any animal, is innocent. I am nice and friendly and play with her dogs, even when they are annoying me as I am tacking up my horse.[/QUOTE]
Absolutely they do.
A former barn owner starved my horse because he was mad at me and wanted me to move. I needed the horse to stay in 24/7 for awhile because he was injured and he resented the extra cleaning/bedding/feed. I offered to pay more but he said not to, and then would come to my work and tell me my horse was mentally retarded and refusing to eat, so I’d have to rush out there to see if the vet needed to come and he was fine, just didn’t HAVE anything to eat. It was sick.
[QUOTE=Mosey_2003;8242865]
Absolutely they do.
A former barn owner starved my horse because he was mad at me and wanted me to move. I needed the horse to stay in 24/7 for awhile because he was injured and he resented the extra cleaning/bedding/feed. I offered to pay more but he said not to, and then would come to my work and tell me my horse was mentally retarded and refusing to eat, so I’d have to rush out there to see if the vet needed to come and he was fine, just didn’t HAVE anything to eat. It was sick.[/QUOTE]
Yup. Sent one of my horses to a rider/trainer while I was on temp assignment 650 miles away. I had dated him YEARS prior. BO, his new girlfriend, acted fine with me, but I got a call from a boarder saying how awful my horse looked. I sent my BF over and the horse was skin and bones. She had not FED him for almost the time he was there, I think a month and a half. The only hay the horse had received when after his rides. The idiot “trainer” claimed he thought the horse was losing weight bc of work. My friend went back and got the horse that day. Vet came over a few days later to do a check up and agreed it was not a physical problem, the horse hadn’t been fed. I never talked to either of them again. How can someone do that to an animal. (btw- the “business” went belly up)
[QUOTE=TWH Girl;8242628]
I can’t find the response right now, but somewhere along the way, a poster eluded to the chore person could be taking anger/resentment/envy, etc. out on the horse that is directed at the owner/me…seriously??! People do this?? No matter how I feel about a person, the animal, any animal, is innocent. I am nice and friendly and play with her dogs, even when they are annoying me as I am tacking up my horse.[/QUOTE]
That was probably me when I said the bully was trying to take it out on the horse OR its owner.
You bet they do too. I once found moldy hay in the stall, removed it, told another couple of boarders so they could check and remove it if needed on my way to the office. It happens, I was just trying to tell him, not be confrontational. BO hit the roof, denied the hay was moldy despite the smelly proof I had in my hands. About 11pm that night, BO called and screamed at me my horse was in a bare, barbed wire fenced sandlot, no food or water and if he was not off the property by dawn, he would turn him into the 4 lane highway adjacent to the barn. He wasn’t kidding either. I called my trainer in tears (I was about 24 at the time) at midnite, and he sorted it out and moved the horse at dawn, verified it had no water and had not for at least 12 hours.
BO later the same day threw trainer and 14 boarders who trained with him out for causing trouble. I did go over that night to clear out my tack and help with the others. BO wasn’t there, probably too drunk.
Anger management issues and substance abuse are not uncommon in barns. Never discount the possibility it’s at the route of bizarre or mean behavior…or tying a horse up because they are mad at it and/or its owner and leaving it all night out of spite or forgetting it. Distinct possibility here.
At one time I gave them, the BO/BMs, the benefit of the doubt in this type situation. Experience taught me not too, and it happened more then once.
Findeight’s comment got me: “Anger management issues and substance abuse are not uncommon in barns.”
Why is that? I started riding at 35 and work full time so the horses are my hobby, passion and my enjoyment. Why would the horse world attract people with anger or substance abuse issues? Control over something submissive? Horses won’t do an intervention with you?
[QUOTE=TWH Girl;8243814]
Findeight’s comment got me: “Anger management issues and substance abuse are not uncommon in barns.”
Why is that? I started riding at 35 and work full time so the horses are my hobby, passion and my enjoyment. Why would the horse world attract people with anger or substance abuse issues? Control over something submissive? Horses won’t do an intervention with you?[/QUOTE]
That may happen sometimes but from boarding in different places I would say more often it happens because people start out with a dream and try to make a go of it alone (because it does not pay enough to hire help in a smaller barn) and then get burnt out- lots of work, no help, small profit if any , no daYS off ever , no vacations ever.
But, no, I don’t support what this barn worker did- pointless and ignorant - see previous post- and I would be moving my horse too.
[QUOTE=TWH Girl;8243814]
Findeight’s comment got me: “Anger management issues and substance abuse are not uncommon in barns.”
Why is that? I started riding at 35 and work full time so the horses are my hobby, passion and my enjoyment. Why would the horse world attract people with anger or substance abuse issues? Control over something submissive? Horses won’t do an intervention with you?[/QUOTE]
Some people love horses; some are “in love” with horses.
That second group loves some concept of the horse. We see this a lot in the rise of “anthropomorphic horsemanship” and the amount of money spent on gurus and fads.*
The reality of horses is that they are 1000 pound prey animals on which we humans must expend a lot of effort on to train them out of their natural instincts.
Folks with anger or substance abuse issues often have difficulty putting themselves into reality or who find reality painful in some way. So they either keep it at arm’s length with aggression or crawl into a bottle, syringe, or leafy green substance.
Some, however, decide that the company of animals is preferable to the company of humans. This does not mean they don’t have anger or substance abuse issues; the animal connection is in addition to, not a substitution for, the other.
Humans are not simple, binary creatures.
G.
*There’s an old song you can probably Google called “Falling In Love With Love.” It expresses this idea rather well.
[QUOTE=Crockpot;8242698]
As a Barn owner, I agree with the comments that handlers leading horses in and out need to be able to correct horses with rude ground manners.[/QUOTE]
This is very true, but even then, the owner should still be informed! At the very least, to give the owner a heads up in case it starts to becom a habit, and potentially to figure out the issue and solve it. So there is never an excuse for an owner to not know.
OP, the QH/western trainers I’ve seen are quite fond of tying for punishment. And other vindictive actions. I hope it’s not common, but I see enough signs of it online to know its a reality more than just here.
Not sure why you singled out the first sentence of my post as that was clearly not the point I was making. Here is the full post:
As a Barn owner, I agree with the comments that handlers leading horses in and out need to be able to correct horses with rude ground manners.
[B]Obviously. But that is not what is described here.
There is no way that tying a horse in the stall for several hours after they are in the stall will teach the horse not to be rude being handled on the way to the stall. WRONG!
I think this is more about ignorance and or revenge (misplaced) than about effective training.
I would be moving[/B]
Some barn owners aren’t people or horse people at all, either. They have a farm (maybe inherited) and want to make money. But it’s more work than it sounds, and they get resentful.
In my former BO’s case, it was he liked money and fit young women prancing around.
[QUOTE=yourcolorfuladdiction;8240398]
I have been to “all around” shows where I’ve seen horses chained to the wall unable to lay down or reach their water for hours on end. It’s usually to induce a specific head set when the head is finally allowed to lower. Although I don’t agree with the practice the horses did not seem to mind it.[/QUOTE]
I’m quite sure the horses DO mind being unable to turn around, lie down, properly scratch, eat or drink water. People might try to justify this “training” practice by arguing that it doesn’t hurt the horses, or they don’t mind it, because it doesn’t appear as physically abusive as whipping or striking with a chain, but it is absolutely still abusive to withhold food and water from an animal, it’s more psychological abuse than physical.
Yourcolorfuladdiction, I realize you state that you don’t support this kind of “training”, and I’m not trying to attack you, I just disagree that the horses would be fine with such treatment.
Remember to thank the fellow boarder who gave you the heads up about your horse being tied. Take the time to talk to her in person.
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