Horse too strong in a group

[grey_pony1]

I’m not a foxhunter but have recently been riding in a large group. My horse is great alone but in groups becomes very strong. She does ok at the walk, but once we trot, I have to fight with her the whole way if I want to stay behind anyone. Then once we walk again, she wants to jig. Yesterday we had a very good stretch of dirt road and were able to gallop. I really let her blow off some steam. We also trotted quite a bit more than she is used to. By the end of the ride I was able to walk her home on the buckle, and she was happy to walk behind the group. Eventually, I would like to be able to trot with the group, on a light or looped rein. What is the best way to achieve this?

Will this eventually happen with enough practice in groups? Will she be able to start off the ride behaving nicely, or do some horses only chill after they are tired near the end of a ride? Normally when we are alone I tie my reins in a knot and we can trot the trails without my having to touch the reins. But in a group she has no brakes! I ride in a plain eggbutt. I am not sure about going to a stronger bit. I was thinking of trying a mechanical hackamore. Someone told me to ace her - I said no thanks. Ideas??

[Jaegermonster]

Just keep doing it. The more you get her out the better she will be. Just make sure you don’t always make changes in gait in the same place. For example, don’t always let her gallop on that same stretch. Don’t let her go up or down in gait if she is anticipating it, make sure she understands she does it when she’s told, not before or after.
If you’re comfortable with the bit you’re using, there’s probably no need to change but if you think more you have a lot of room to step up.

It’s just the herding instinct kicking in, and if she is an OTTB she naturally wants to be in the front. Just start out letting her be wherever is comfortable in the group as long as she is relaxed and happy. If you guys are fighting she isn’t learning anything. The after that’s all good you can start putting her in different places in the group

Eventually they learn that all that jigging around is tiresome and more trouble than it’s worth and they stop.

[Lieselotte]

When your horse is with you only, you are the “herd” and everything seems to go well. But introduce other horses, the dynamics change and now she wants to be with the other horses instead. You need to keep her “with you” mentally at all times, and this you need to teach her or her instincts will kick in and take over when you pick up speed. (Think “A lone horse is a dead horse.”)

Here’s the ideal training situation but unfortunately you will depend on the patience of your fellow riders: Ride single file and pick up a trot. Your horse starts pushing and pulling? Everyone stops and gives you room to school: walking backwards, making circles to both sides, leg yielding, etc. Off you walk, then trot again, but she wants to get ahead? Do more schooling, again and again, until she understands!

Leapfrogging in and out of single file to various positions in the group is another great exercise everyone can benefit from. Maybe you won’t get very far the first few times due to all the schooling but so be it. Don’t award her with “blowing off steam” at a gallop until you know for sure she can handle it and do it on your terms. Better safe than sorry.

The basic point is: you must not lose her mentally when you pick up speed and must be able to be in control at all times. This is easier said than done but lots of training will get you there and you will end up with the best behaved horse in the group

[Ponyclubrocks]

What others have said plus, be sure you are not inadvertently hanging on her mouth, this will make a lot of horses stronger. Do repeated half halts and be sure to give after each one, if no response repeat. They should not be abrupt, they need to be smooth and last for two beats, say “half halt” aloud as you do it and give just as smoothly as you take. They can be mild or strong, but should always be smooth and slow “half halt and give”. Most horses will start to relax on the give and while it may take many half halts to get there, eventually the horse will get it. In my experience, when half halts don’t work it isn’t because of the bit, it is because they are not executed correctly. (Usually too abrupt and harsh which just makes a tense horse even worse). Good luck!

[Granada]

What everyone else said! The more you ride out with a group, the better they get. Just stay calm, firm and consistent yourself and your horse will eventually follow your lead.

Also, stepping up with the bit won’t help the energy/anxiety of your horse, but it will help with the brakes and making your aids louder. You could just try a twisted or thinner mouthpeice and/or a full cheek with keepers and only use this bit when you go out with the group… then it’s a new feel to your horse and a little louder than your normal bit but not so harsh it creates more anxiety.

Good Luck! It sounds like your horse is smart and will figure out that extra antics are more trouble than they’re worth.

[jawa]

Sometimes riding with one or two other horses for a few rides, then introducing to a large group when she’s with the known riding partners. I found my gelding to be much better when he trailered with a “friend”. He didn’t need to know them before the event, just riding in the trailer was enough to be buddies, and help calm him.

If possible ride the same trails, just don’t always pick the transitions in the same place. If you are throwing in new horses and new locations it can really blow their minds. When starting a green bean hunting I will take him to the same fixture a couple of times. It helps to build their confidence.

I don’t really agree with galloping to blow off steam. You can make trail riding TOO exciting and make it hard for them to settle and relax to the job. I use it as a reward for hard work in the ring. A nice quite walk out on the trail. When that is easy on a loose rein, I move up to a trot on a loose rein. Do this for a long time before you canter or gallop. This is especially important for a hot horse.

The leap frog idea is really helpful. Repeating it often.

Doing dressage movements on the trail when she jigs or moves at a pace faster than you asked. Leg yield, half pass, shoulder in, shoulder fore (you will have to be able to do these in the ring first with out resistance to get them on the trail with lots of distractions). Halt, back, walk. As soon as the horse does the desired task loosen the rein ALOT!!! Yes, you will have to probably collect the reins again and ask for those same movements, but you have to reward the smallest try to get her to get to the big one eventually. One day you will be moving along on medium contact and accidentally drop your reins and you’ll feel your horse slow slightly instead of speed up to take advantage.

If you find her being good let her be in front. If she’s bad, back to the back and back to “work”.

Go out often, get lots of miles and hours out on the trails. The more exposure the better.

You will need a really patient group of trail riders to help you out.

Best of Luck

[Foxtrot_s]

As above. My high octane TB finally got it - after thousands of half halts, keeping her brain engaged, really, really softening after the hh, including thighs, butt and shoulders when she walks or relaxes. She finally realized nobody was going anywhere without her.

Mine went best when not on a narrow trail, where we could spread out a bit.

Kind friends who will take you out regularly and often, have your horse not too fresh before starting or after a few days off (lunging), lots of sweaty saddle pads.

It is hard work, mentally, and a commitment. When you are done can you come and do my youngie? From your description, your horse sounds like a horse who will get it eventually - not a total wing nut. Some just never settle it seems.

[wateryglen]

just my 2 sense!

Mileage, mileage, mileage! and what everyone else said. Because it’s new it makes them anxious so it needs to become part of your training and their repertoire. Till it becomes kinda ho hum. You have to TRAIN for trailriding and riding in groups complicates that and a lot of folks don’t understand that. So you are training for 2 things here. Be patient and keep at it.

Some horses will always stay strong in groups tho’ so you’ll need to experiment with what works best. What you can tolerate, what’s good for them, what’s not dangerous. I’d bit up if you are not getting any response when you need it. You can always switch back. I did it for me and MY anxieties!!! :winkgrin:

Smaller groups can be super for training. Some horses have their favorite places in the group too so experiment with that too. good luck!

[grey_pony1]

Thank you all!! Looks like I will have to be much more diligent about asking for and getting what I want. I do have at least one person who will be patient and let me school her while riding with another horse. My mare is half Arab, and very smart. We went out both Saturday and Sunday, and she was better the second day. I was able to do brief periods of trotting on a loose rein next to her buddy. This spring/summer there will be plenty of opportunities to ride in a group, yay! Hopefully she will be a different horse by the end of summer.

[armandh]

[QUOTE=Foxtrot’s;4785075]
As above. My high octane TB finally got it - She finally realized nobody was going anywhere without her.
QUOTE]

that is the great day in the hunt field when your horse realizes we are all going and there is no need to rush.

some get it quickly
for some it takes a while
some have not got it yet

and some only remember it after the first run.

the horse pictured in my profile was strong and pulled
the first year hunting in a double bridle
a stout ride the day B4
no grain the morning of the hunt

by year 3 it was a jointed bit
tack 'em up put 'em in the trailer and go

but he was always a bit strong the first 20 minutes